[Brother Tim]

maybe our efforts would be better spent on trying to pull as many people out of the fire as we can...

Double AMEN to that, Brother!

Originally Posted by MC1171611

And, in my opinion, littered with many Scriptures that seem to be ignored.

The principle is the same: if you want to get into semantics, we can do it. But the principle is to obey and honor those in authority. As Christians, we have absolutely no right to revolt or dishonor those that rule over us, regardless of the governmental system or how they came to power. It would be our job to honor Mao much the same as it is to honor Obama or as it was for the Christians in Rome to honor Nero. The path to power is irrelevant: the position of authority is what God commands us to honor regardless of who the man is.

Well see that's the difference between you and me brother.
You would HONOR Stalin and Mao as they murdered millions including your family and mine, and I would seek to discredit, overturn and overthrow his horrible regime, in order to bring forth a more perfect union, even to the death if required. See, I'm just not as good a Christian as yourself.

Thank God America isn't run by passivists, otherwise I could be working on a collective farm in a pile of pig manure, honoring a godless murderer like Mao, instead of my leather couch speaking with you on the internet in freedom.

A few points from the other forum...

Now, I agree winning souls is the best solution, as I wrote here on Nov. 5:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=686

BUT, that's not always going to throw down a Communist dictator or a Marxist murderer. Why? Because some men never repent and have no interest in God. As outlined by the founding documents, we as Americans are to be prepared to even throw down OUR OWN GOVERNMENT if required to save the nation and our God-given freedom.

I think it's clear that Paul was addressing the early church, and he was telling them how to deal with their particular situation in that particular time. He was not a military leader, that was not his calling. But I also think to suggest that those who are fighting against a communist regime or Godless dictator are somehow "resisting God" is just a terrible twist of scripture.

Certainly we know that God is love, and calls his children to be peacemakers. But we also know the Bible says God is a Man of War, and there are plenty of directions from God regarding overthrowing, resisting and killing the enemies of his people in the Bible. I can certainly appreciate your passivism, and I can respect that. I just think there is more than one side to this, just like there is more than one side to God, and if we are going to look at the Bible on these these matters, let's look at all of it. We know where things are headed eventually...

"And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God." Rev. 19:13-15

[KJBPrincess]

I guess all those martyrs in the early church were pacifists, because they didn't attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire.

Brother MC1171611;
I am trying to reconcile your comments above with the post below, but I have to say I'm a little confused by your various remarks, are you a light switch or a man...

sorry brother, I just HAD to do it...

Originally Posted by MC1171611:
"People like Obama that openly socialize with anti-American scum like Ayers and his ilk should be hung as traitors to their nation. They do not respect our flag, do not respect nor intend to obey our Constitution, and do not love our country. They want to be like "all the other nations" (1 Sam. 8:20) and do away with our amazing foundation of morality and Christian principles.

These people should be tried for treason and shot, no questions asked. George Washington would have ripped Obama's head off with his bare hands for the perversions that he's openly admitted that he's going to foist upon this nation. Shame on you, USA for picking this reprobate!!"

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=693&page=2

Originally Posted by KJBPrincess

I guess all those martyrs in the early church were pacifists, because they didn't attempt to overthrow the Roman Empire.

SIDE B:
I guess all those who fought against Stalin's purges were in no way Christians because they didn't honor a murderer.

Like I said, I just think there is more than one side to this, just like there is more than one side to God. Food for thought.

[KJBPrincess]

I was just stating what came to mind when I read your post...

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Brother MC1171611;
I am trying to reconcile your comments above with the post below, but I have to say I'm a little confused by your various remarks, are you a light switch or a man...

sorry brother, I just HAD to do it...


http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=693&page=2

I think Jane Fonda should be executed for her crimes against America. That doesn't mean I'm going to take a gun and do it; that means I think the rule of law should cause justice to be served. In a good nation, Obama would have been kicked out as a traitor if not hung.

There's a difference between what America should do (as a nation) and what we are COMMANDED to do as Christians. The South should secede and create its own nation founded on the original principles of the USA, but we as Christians are COMMANDED to be in subjection and submission to the authorities placed over us, regardless of who they are.

If you disagree, then take it up with Jesus, Peter and Paul.

Originally Posted by MC1171611

I think Jane Fonda should be executed for her crimes against America. That doesn't mean I'm going to take a gun and do it; that means I think the rule of law should cause justice to be served. In a good nation, Obama would have been kicked out as a traitor if not hung.

There's a difference between what America should do (as a nation) and what we are COMMANDED to do as Christians.

Geez, all this talk of killing...
so you want AMERICA to do the execution work eh?
See last time I checked, America is made up of people.
So what you're saying is, you think OTHER people should deal with the problem, well---whatever brother, I can't follow your logic when it keeps spinning like this.

I just find it funny that you want everyone to HONOR the guy while you are screaming about tearing his head off and calling him a "reprobate."

Originally Posted by MC1171611

The South should secede and create its own nation founded on the original principles of the USA...

Okay, you are jumping around and you lost me there...

Originally Posted by MC1171611

but we as Christians are COMMANDED to be in subjection and submission to the authorities placed over us, regardless of who they are.

Nonsense. I understand this to a point, but I think like many of the brethren, you're taking your Bible way out of context and pushing this way too far when you say, "regardless of who they are."

If communists and murderers are placed over America they should be thrown down and replaced with good leaders, by force if required. Don't worry, the nation will handle it. You won't have to get involved brother, you can even honor them if you want as we are kicking them out the door.

[MC1171611]

1Pet. 2:11 Dearly beloved, I beseech you as strangers and pilgrims, abstain from fleshly lusts, which war against the soul;
12 Having your conversation honest among the Gentiles: that, whereas they speak against you as evildoers, they may by your good works, which they shall behold, glorify God in the day of visitation.
13 Submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord’s sake: whether it be to the king, as supreme;
14 Or unto governors, as unto them that are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers, and for the praise of them that do well.
15 For so is the will of God, that with well doing ye may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men:
16 As free, and not using your liberty for a cloke of maliciousness, but as the servants of God.
17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.
18 Servants, be subject to your masters with all fear; not only to the good and gentle, but also to the froward.
19 For this is thankworthy, if a man for conscience toward God endure grief, suffering wrongfully.
20 For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God.
21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
22 Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:
23 Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:
24 Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree, that we, being dead to sins, should live unto righteousness: by whose stripes ye were healed.
25 For ye were as sheep going astray; but are now returned unto the Shepherd and Bishop of your souls.

I'm done arguing with you. Go argue with God about your rebellious attitude if you want. I think He's already said everything that needs to be said though.

Originally Posted by MC1171611

I'm done arguing with you. Go argue with God about your rebellious attitude if you want.

Haha, okay brother, but I'm not the one wanting to execute people and tear the heads off politicians! On the other hand, it might come to that one day, take a look:
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i...BlHOwD94CCDU00