[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by chette777

and like most who cannot reason with the truth of God's word you resort to wining, slander and speaking evil of dignitaries

Man you are a real piece of work, talk about the pot calling the kettle black! My comments about your character have been long overdue, and are the result of seeing your repeated ungracious behaviour toward quite a few members on this website. I am not speaking evil of you. As a pastor you are supposed to be blameless, yet you are far from it on the internet.

And the correct spelling is "whining"!

Originally Posted by chette777

if you can find me one verse where a PHYSICALLY LIVING PERSON is raptured in the KJV bible I will take it all back. PUBLICLY

Both Enoch & Elijah were raptured out physically while still alive. Hebrews 11:5; 2 Kings 2:11.

Waiting for your public apology...

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by chette777

correction.

I will tell you what Kiwi, if you can find me one verse where a physically living person is RESURRECTED in the KJV bible I will take it all back. PUBLICLY

The word "rise" is a reference to resurrection in the New Testament in a number of cases, I'm sure you will agree:

Matthew 27:63 Saying, Sir, we remember that that deceiver said, while he was yet alive, After three days I will rise again.

Acts 26:23 That Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.

1 Corinthians 15:15 Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

Now look again at the resurrection/rapture passage 1 Thess 4:14-17

1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

"The dead in Christ shall rise FIRST: then we.."

There is a group of saints who are going to "rise first", and there is a group who are going to rise second!

[chette777]

I am sorry that is no Biblical proof and any physically Living person Resurrected your scratching at straws. thess describes that the dead in Christ rise FIRST then we who are alive shall be caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to be with the Lord. Paul does not say or support your erroneous claim that the living are resurrected.

I already proved by scriptures that the resurrection is of the dead only. but here is your reminder. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. oh rise yes Risen from the dead just like in thess.

Enoch and Elijah were translated not resurrected. come on quit playing around. One clear scripture of any physically living person resurrected just one.

By the way the Rapture has a resurrection in it but it is only for the dead not the living. so how can living saints be part of the first resurrection. if you make Physical Living People resurrected with out any Biblical proof that it ever happened before or in the future. you probably believe that the living at the time of the GWT judgement will stand before the GWT and be judged from the books and the lambs book of life. and that Satan will stand at the GWT judgement to accuse men of their sins.

Strike one, two and three your out of it.

you can't find one because resurrections are only for the physically dead. so quit already.

I have not belittled you or anyone, if I have I am sure and he is free to say so, Brandon would have contacted me and said so. you mistake my confidence for arrogance.

so you correct my spelling with an exclamation point!

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by chette777

I am sorry that is no Biblical proof and any physically Living person Resurrected your scratching at straws. thess describes that the dead in Christ rise FIRST then we who are alive shall be caught up together with the resurrected dead in Christ to be with the Lord. Paul does not say or support your erroneous claim that the living are resurrected.

I already proved by scriptures that the resurrection is of the dead only. but here is your reminder. But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. oh rise yes Risen from the dead just like in thess.

Enoch and Elijah were translated not resurrected. come on quit playing around. One clear scripture of any physically living person resurrected just one.

By the way the Rapture has a resurrection in it but it is only for the dead not the living. so how can living saints be part of the first resurrection. if you make Physical Living People resurrected with out any Biblical proof that it ever happened before or in the future. you probably believe that the living at the time of the GWT judgement will stand before the GWT and be judged from the books and the lambs book of life. and that Satan will stand at the GWT judgement to accuse men of their sins.

Strike one, two and three your out of it.

you can't find one because resurrections are only for the physically dead. so quit already.

I have not belittled you or anyone, if I have I am sure and he is free to say so, Brandon would have contacted me and said so. you mistake my confidence for arrogance.

so you correct my spelling with an exclamation point!

Chette, you're forgetting something in your thinking on this first resurrection. You forget that there will be Jews who haven't taken the mark, and who are still alive when this first resurrection takes place, AND who are considered a part of this resurrection:

One thing that still remains on my mind is that I don't see how you could rule out our rapture as part of this resurrection (does the second death have power on our Rapture and the resurrection of Matthew 27 since we aren't a part of that resurrection? (Revelation 20:6). There are saints that are with Christ now that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus and for the word of God. I know this isn't a perfectly sound speculation, but I don't believe you can rule it out entirely.

One thing I haven't heard from you is what role Christians will play in the Kingdom of Heaven. We are His body after all. Shall we return to the status as dogs eating crumbs under the table again. Jesus eating at the table with His bride (Israel) while we "Gentiles" lick at the floor while the Jews (who murdered the prophets and our Lord I might add) eat with our King? *sigh*...

Stephen

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by chette777

of was obvious that those who died believing in him would never die but would be resurrected in the last day. the point being the dead are resurrected not the living.and John11 doesn't support your erroneous teaching that Live people are resurrected so no need to comment on it...

You're wrong. Read John 11:25-26 again and you will see that Jesus addressed both dead ("though he were dead") and living ("whosoever liveth") believers in Him when telling Martha about the resurrection:

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

"Whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die" is a reference to the rapture/resurrection of living saints, and fits in with 1 Cori 15 & 1 Thess 4 (Church Age saints), & Rev 11:12 (Tribulation saints).

[chette777]

did Martha believe? is she physically alive today? is anyone who heard those words and believed or disbelieved Physically alive today? NO

you scratching again. there is no proof of any Physically living person ever resurrected. yeah it fits in retrospect. but she nor they had those scriptures. you toying does not amuse me.

John 11 does not support your erroneous view the PHYSICALLY LIVING PEOPLE ARE RESURRECTED

[chette777]

ho hum?

Is Martha physically alive today? No. Is anyone at that time believing or disbelieving physically alive today? No.

you can make them fit in retrospect today. but for Martha and here peers no it wont fit.

fact: not one physically living person was ever or ever will be resurrected. Only physically dead people are resurrected.

I don't think I can make it any clearer than that.

so where is your Bible verse that supports that Physically living people will be resurrected or have been?

go ahead have the last word I give up