[pbiwolski]

While reading recently through the book of Job, I couldn't help but noticing something in the eloquent wording of the King James. It seemed to me as though while Job was speaking to his audience, that the AV was addressing its audience of "wannabees", imitations, and counterfeits.

Job 6:24-30
24. Teach me, and I (KJB) will hold my tongue: and cause me to understand wherein I have erred.
25. How forcible are right words! but what doth your arguing reprove?
26. Do ye imagine to reprove words, and the speeches of one that is desperate, which are as wind?
27. Yea, ye overwhelm the fatherless, and ye dig a pit for your friend.
28. Now therefore be content, look upon me; for it is evident unto you if I lie.
29. Return, I pray you, let it not be iniquity; yea, return again, my righteousness is in it.
30. Is there iniquity in my tongue? cannot my taste discern perverse things?


Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

The Book does speak, and oh how sweet it is to hear from the words of the living God!

Has it spoken to you lately?

[stephanos]

God's Word moves me every time I read it. Although getting through Joshua was a bit rough I'll admit. I really should have a good map of Israel at hand as I read that Book because I can't for the life of me picture the land and borders being described in this Scripture.

But yes, brother, God's Word is amazing. I can't go more than two days without reading something that moves me to tears. God's Word is such a blessing, and I'd truly be lost without it.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[atlas]

stephanos,

I really should have a good map of Israel at hand as I read that Book because I can't for the life of me picture the land and borders being described in this Scripture.

Use the maps in the back of your Bible. That is what I try to do, sometimes they help.


Atlas

[stephanos]

I've looked them over, but I really could benefit from a nice large wall poster that I could look at when I need to (not to mention that it would be nice to have a poster of the holy land). I think it would be great to have a poster of Israel with the names of places before and after places were renamed. I'd also like to see locations of old landmarks etc. I do have a copy of the Oxford Bible Atlas in pdf format, but it's not very handy when I'm not at the computer.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.

The Book does speak, and oh how sweet it is to hear from the words of the living God!

Has it spoken to you lately?

It spoke to my teenage son one time when he read this verse (and other portions as he read through the Book of Job) and realized who the author may have been.

Any guesses, thoughts, insights? I imagine he is not the only one who came to this conclusion, but I had not seen it until he saw the evidence in the KJV wording. Most Bible commentators that I have read have not seen it either.

Shalom,

Tandi

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Tandi

It spoke to my teenage son one time when he read this verse (and other portions as he read through the Book of Job) and realized who the author may have been.

In chapter 32, verses 15-17, Elihu seems to switch to the first person as if he is narrating.

Job 32:15-17 They were amazed, they answered no more: they left off speaking. When I had waited, (for they spake not, but stood still, and answered no more;) I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

Also note that when the Lord appears and answers everyone, he rebukes everyone except Elihu in chapter 42, demanding sacrifice for their (Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar) sin, but not of Elihu.

Originally Posted by Diligent

In chapter 32, verses 15-17, Elihu seems to switch to the first person as if he is narrating.

Job 32:15-17 They were amazed, they answered no more: they left off speaking. When I had waited, (for they spake not, but stood still, and answered no more I said, I will answer also my part, I also will shew mine opinion.

Also note that when the Lord appears and answers everyone, he rebukes everyone except Elihu in chapter 42, demanding sacrifice for their (Eliphaz, Bildad, and Zophar) sin, but not of Elihu.

You got it right! It frustrates me when I see commentaries that put Elihu in the same category as the other friends. I wonder if Elihu is a type of Christ .....or perhaps even a pre-incarnate appearance (theophany). Any thoughts?

Have you read the book, The Hiding God: Jesus in the Old Testament, by Raymond L. Scott? That book made quite an impression on me years ago.

Shalom,

Tandi

[Brother Tim]

Brandon, I do not agree that a switch was made in v.15. Nearly the entire chapter is a quote from Elihu. It is therefore all in first person. It starts in 32:6 and ends in 33:33, and then a new quote begins in 34:2. The narrator remains a third person.

As for Elihu being a type of Christ, I disagree. The reason for not being included in the condemnation at the end of the book is the same as for why he was not answered by Job. It is found in 32:3 and 32:6, his youth. His accusations against Job are just as wrong, but he does not have the experience of age to qualify his speech as worthy of response.

[bibleprotector]

I think that is right, Brother Tim.

[George]

Originally Posted by Brother Tim

"Brandon, I do not agree that a switch was made in v.15. Nearly the entire chapter is a quote from Elihu. It is therefore all in first person. It starts in 32:6 and ends in 33:33, and then a new quote begins in 34:2. The narrator remains a third person.

As for Elihu being a type of Christ, I disagree. The reason for not being included in the condemnation at the end of the book is the same as for why he was not answered by Job. It is found in 32:3 and 32:6, his youth. His accusations against Job are just as wrong, but he does not have the experience of age to qualify his speech as worthy of response. "

Aloha Brother Tim,

Just a few comments on your Post #8 <> “King Job Bible”.

Brandon engaged in a slight bit of “speculation”:

“In chapter 32, verses 15-17, Elihu seems to switch to the first person as if he is narrating.”

To which you answered:

“Brandon, I do not agree that a switch was made in v.15. Nearly the entire chapter is a quote from Elihu. It is therefore all in first person. It starts in 32:6 and ends in 33:33, and then a new quote begins in 34:2. The narrator remains a third person.”

I personally lean towards Brandon’s “viewpoint”, but your viewpoint may be just as valid, and so in the scope of things, the issue of who wrote the Book of Job is “a wash”. However, someone had to have written the Book of Job (and who would have been better qualified than Elihu – who witnessed (both saw & heard) the entire episode?

The second part of your response should have been directed at “Tandi”, since it was Tandi that “speculated”:

“I wonder if Elihu is a type of Christ .....or perhaps even a pre-incarnate appearance (theophany). Any thoughts?”

To which you responded:

“As for Elihu being a type of Christ, I disagree.”

And I am in complete agreement with you that Elihu couldn’t have possibly been a “type of Christ” or a “theophany” – the “type” just doesn’t fit the “Majesty” and “Glory” of the Lord.

However I must take issue with some of the things you said in your last quote:

“The reason for not being included in the condemnation at the end of the book is the same as for why he was not answered by Job. It is found in 32:3 and 32:6, his youth. His accusations against Job are just as wrong, but he does not have the experience of age to qualify his speech as worthy of response.”

You said: “His accusations against Job are just as wrong,” Can you point out just exactly “where” Elihu was “wrong”? Could you be more specific please?

If you will recall we had a small disputation before about Job’s friends: Eliphaz. Bildad, & Zophar – see: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...40&postcount=1 http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...98&postcount=7 in which I disagreed with your “assessment” of their statements. I reiterate what I said then: “Can you not see the distinction between being "factually correct" about issues and having "faulty judgment"?

The case of Elihu is entirely different than Eliphaz. Bildad, & Zophar. Since God never called Elihu down for “faulty judgment” (as he did Job’s “friends”); you are going to have to “prove” just exactly where Elihu was "WRONG" (specifically). The idea that God “excused” him or his supposed “faulty judgment” because of his “youth” won’t hold any water – at least not Scripturally. Since when does God “excuse” sin because a man (NOT a boy!) is young?

Job and his "friends" were at least in their 60’s (probably older) – what does that make Elihu? The fact that Elihu was younger (perhaps 30-50 - Certainly NOT in his TEENS!) wouldn’t “excuse” him if he had been wrong in his “judgment”. I can think of NO instance in the Bible that God “excused” a young man (NOT a child) of his sins because of his “youth” perhaps you can provide me with some examples?

It is far more likely that, had Elihu been “wrong” in his judgment, that God would have “lumped” him in with Eliphaz. Bildad, & Zophar (regardless of his age) and would have required of him the same “sacrifice” as He did Job’s “friends”:
Job 42:7 And it was so, that after the LORD had spoken these words unto Job, the LORD said to Eliphaz the Temanite, My wrath is kindled against thee, and against thy two friends: for ye have not spoken of me the thing that is right, as my servant Job hath.
8 Therefore take unto you now seven bullocks and seven rams, and go to my servant Job, and offer up for yourselves a burnt offering; and my servant Job shall pray for you: for him will I accept: lest I deal with you after your folly, in that ye have not spoken of me the thing which is right, like my servant Job.

In my former Posts <> AV1611 Bible Forums <> Doctrine <> “Are the words of Job, Eliphaz, Bildad, Zophar, & Elihu "suspect" or "Truth"?” <> Thread #1 & Post #7: http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...40&postcount=1 http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...98&postcount=7 I listed 18 verses spoken by Eliphaz; 8 verses by Bildad; and 6 verses by Zophar - all of which were in regard to God, God’s Character, the Creation, the Flood, etc. (all of which were TRUE); I then listed another 48 verses spoken by Elihu (all of which were TRUE); (I could have listed another 76 verses spoken by Job - all of which were TRUE) trying to demonstrate to you that although Job’s three “friends” were “wrong” in their “judgment” about Job, they were “factually correct” about everything else that they spoke about.

God’s wrath was “kindled against” Eliphaz. Bildad, & Zophar because of “faulty judgment” (on their part) – had Elihu’s judgment been “wrong” also, God would have been just as angry with him as He was with Job’s three “friends” (regardless of his age), the fact that God did not call Elihu down indicates that his judgment was NOT “faulty” or “wrong”.

Your statement: “His accusations against Job are just as wrong, but he does not have the experience of age to qualify his speech as worthy of response.” Is pure “speculation” on your part – unless you can PROVE (from the Holy Scriptures) otherwise.