Hi, everyone! I've been busy reading so much discussion here! Awesome!
Thanks so much!
I have a weird question, I have thought about it before, but perhaps some here have more precise information...

Obviously, Jesus died for us and ended the need for animal sacrifices, but how did it actually end and when with the Jewish unconverted people back in the New Testament days? Why did they stop sacrificing animals?

I know it is an old question, but I would really like to know the details on how Jewish unbelievers stopped sacrificing.

Thanks so very kindly.
Reading up a storm lately; hence, questions at a place where I believe some people have the answers! Thanks in advance.

[atlas]

Doxa,

Why did they stop sacrificing animals?

This is simple. They do not live or worship by the Old Testament. I have ask about four or five Jewish Rabbis the same question. I told them " If you are going to go by the O.T. you need to restart animal sacrifices. "

I never seem to get a reasonable reply to this statement. We have a few Jewish Temples here in Dallas/Ft. Worth.


Atlas

[George]

Originally Posted by Doxa

Hi, everyone! I've been busy reading so much discussion here! Awesome!
Thanks so much!
I have a weird question, I have thought about it before, but perhaps some here have more precise information...

Obviously, Jesus died for us and ended the need for animal sacrifices, but how did it actually end and when with the Jewish unconverted people back in the New Testament days? Why did they stop sacrificing animals?

I know it is an old question, but I would really like to know the details on how Jewish unbelievers stopped sacrificing.

Thanks so very kindly.
Reading up a storm lately; hence, questions at a place where I believe some people have the answers! Thanks in advance.

Aloha Doxa,

In 70 A.D. the Roman army (under Titus) came and conquered the rebellious Israelites. And in the course of that battle (the war = 66 A.D. -73 A.D.) the Roman army destroyed most of the city and all of the Temple (where the sacrifices took place). Most of the Israelites who remained alive were scattered throughout the Roman Empire and eventually throughout the world.

At the present time, today's Jews have no Temple (to make the sacrifices in), and no Priests (to make the sacrifices), thus the Jewish animal sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Jews throughout the world.

If you read "Arutz Sheva" (a "conservative" Israeli newspaper - in English), you will find that there is a small minority of Jews in present day Israel who are starting to make some of the vessels & furniture for a "Temple" ("the table of gold, whereupon the shewbread was"; "the candlesticks of pure gold, five on the right side, and five on the left"; "the lamps, and the tongs of gold"; And the bowls, and the snuffers, and the basons, and the spoons, and the censers of pure gold".)

These "Orthodox" or "Traditional" Jews are looking for a "red heifer" (for the sacrifice) and they are trying to determine and identify who among them are the descendants of Levi (Aaron) so when the Temple is rebuilt they will have legitimate priests to offer the sacrifices.

The following URL's can give you some information as to what is going on with some "religious" Jews in the world and Israel:

Best overall coverage:
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/

Very good information (specialized):
http://www.shturem.net/index.php?section=news&id=18842〈=english
http://www.ynetnews.com/home/0,7340,L-3082,00.html
http://israelinsider.com/home.htm

Temple Information:
http://www.templeinstitute.org/events.htm

Blogs, etc.:
http://www.israelendtimes.com/blog/
http://www.israpundit.com/2008/
http://www.tenc.net/

If you want to know what is going on in Israel, you are going to have to go to Israeli sources for information - The American media barely reports on Israel, and when they do - most of it is MIS-information!

[atlas]

George,


Every Jewish Rabbi I have talked and have ask this question to has given me the same answer. It would look bad on our faith, and most people would not like us sacrificing animals nor would they understand. The Jewish faith has temples all over the world. They could use anyone of them for sacrificing animals, yet they will not do so. One day they will, but that day is in the future.

My wife is a Jew ( race only, not faith ) and some of her folks attend Jewish temple. They know the Jewish faith inside and out. As life long Jews this is also what they have told me.


Atlas

[George]

Originally Posted by atlas

George,


Every Jewish Rabbi I have talked and have ask this question to has given me the same answer. It would look bad on our faith, and most people would not like us sacrificing animals nor would they understand. The Jewish faith has temples all over the world. They could use anyone of them for sacrificing animals, yet they will not do so. One day they will, but that day is in the future.

My wife is a Jew ( race only, not faith ) and some of her folks attend Jewish temple. They know the Jewish faith inside and out. As life long Jews this is also what they have told me.


Atlas

Aloha brother Atlas,

There may be Jewish "Temples" all around the world and some Rabbis may be giving you their "personal opinion" about them, but no self-respecting religious Israelite residing in the land of Israel would accept any of those "Temples" as being "genuine" or that any sacrifices made in them as being "legitimate".

Go to some of the web sites that I have listed. The religious Jews of Israel (and there are more today than there were 20 years ago) are extremely adamant about several things:

1. All of the land of Israel was given to them (Jews) by God (not the Arabs).
2. There should be no Jewish lands handed over to the Arabs ("Palestinians").
3. There should be no "partition" of the land of Israel.
4. There should be no division of the land given to them (Jews) into two States (Israel & "Palestine").
5. There should be no division of Jerusalem into a "divided" Capital (Since Jerusalem is the Holy City of David.).
6. That the "temple" mount and all of the land surrounding it belongs to Israel - not the Arabs!
7. That the Temple must be rebuilt so that "legitimate" Temple worship can resume.
8. That all of these things must be done because the Messiah is coming.

None of these religious Jews in Israel would ever accept another "temple" in any other place other than where the original Temple stood in Jerusalem. They would look upon any other "temple" as an abomination and sacrilege - much like the "counterfeit" places of worship set up by Jeroboam after the dividing of the Kingdom between Rehoboam (King of JUDAH - the Tribes of Judah & Benjamin) and Jeroboam (King of ISRAEL - the remaining 10 Tribes) after Solomon's death.

The "Samaritans" in Jesus' time were the "mixed offspring" from the rebellious 10 tribes of Israel that followed after Jeroboam (who abandoned Temple worship as outlined by God and who quickly fell into Idolatry.), which is why the Jews of Jesus' time would have nothing to do with them.

John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.
20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and YE SAY, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship.
21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

The religious Jews that are now living in Israel profess and believe exactly what the Samaritan woman said of the Jews in Jesus' day! {John 4:20} There isn't any way and under no circumstances would they ever recognize any other "temple" on earth as being "Legitimate"!

If you read some of the Israeli publications, newspapers, etc., that I listed you will find that the religious Jews living in Israel look upon themselves as the only true representatives of their religion. They do not look favorably on those Jews who live in foreign lands - who refuse to move to the land of Israel and become Israeli citizens. They (the religious Jews in Israel) are happy for their (those Jews in other lands) support, but they do not look upon them in the same way that they do those Jews who have chosen to move to Israel and share in the work of rebuilding their nation.

Most Rabbis and Jews living outside of the land of Israel don't have the love of the land or the burning desire to see the Temple rebuilt again - as those religious Jews living in Israel do.

I have read at least one Israeli newspaper every day for nearly 15 years - I can testify to you that the religious Jews in Israel are nothing like the vast majority of the Jews living in the Western world. They are very much like the Pharisees in Jesus' time (just as fixed, fierce, and dedicated as the Pharisees of old) and I can guarantee you that they would NEVER accept any "temple" in any other place, other than a Temple, on the temple mount, in Jerusalem.

[atlas]

George,


Go find four or five Jewish Rabbis and talk to them about it and see what they say about this issue. Are the Jews that live in the USA not real Jews
? IE: Race and Faith.

Well you must think so also or you would not quote this information. Also if this is true then all of the Jews that came from some other nation are also not real Jews also? They came from Russia, Poland, the USA and other nations, therefore are they real Jews? This is what all of the other Jews ask when someone brings up this foolish " not a real Jew " issue. Some guy lives in Israel for two years and now he is a REAL JEW, yet some Jew in Russia is not a real Jew. This is laughable to every Jew I know, and I know a few. I go to their homes I talk to them. We are related via marriage. I see them 25 or 30 per year at a minimum. I know a few things life and Jews are one of them.

If you read some of the Israeli publications, newspapers, etc., that I listed you will find that the religious Jews living in Israel look upon themselves as the only true representatives of their religion.

Big deal that they say they are the apple on the tree. So do parts of every other religion in the world. This is not anything new. This has happened for thousands and thousands of years. This is just not a Jewish only issue. This happens with all faiths and always has and always will.

If you read some of the Israeli publications, newspapers, etc., that I listed you will find that the religious Jews living in Israel look upon themselves as the only true representatives of their religion. They do not look favorably on those Jews who live in foreign lands - who refuse to move to the land of Israel and become Israeli citizens.

I have read Jewish publications for years, this is not new news either. I know how the Jews Israel are, this is a small minority also. Only a very small minority believes and propagates this.

Now after you read this go and find 25 real Jews in real life and a few real Jewish Rabbis in real life and talk to them.


Have you ever even talked to a real Jew or Jewish Rabbi face to face? I have, I have been to their temples and homes. Sadly if the Jews I know do not get born again they will go to hell, being God's chosen people will not keep you out of hell. I have helped a few convert, but Jews are hard to deal with when it comes to Jesus Christ and N.T. salvation.

As a side note, my wife is only half Jew. She is German/Jew. Her Dad married a lady of German decent, however all of the rest of her family are real Jews, no matter what you or a few immigrant Jews in Israel think or a few newspapers put out by a few immigrant Jews in Israel think.



Atlas

[George]

Aloha brother,

First off - If I said anything that may have offended you, I apologize. My Post #5 was not meant to call into question what you have heard from the Jewish Rabbis you have spoken to; or any other Jews you may have had conversations with; or especially anything that your wife may have said about this issue. Again, if you think I was calling you or them liars, I apologize for not being clear enough in my Post.

What I was trying to convey was the attitude of many Jews (especially the "religious" Jews) who live in Israel as opposed to those Jews living outside of Israel.

"Are the Jews that live in the USA not real Jews
? IE: Race and Faith."

"Well you must think so also or you would not quote this information."

I never once even "hinted" that the Jews living outside of Israel weren't "real" Jews. Again I was trying to convey what I have read from the religious Jews abiding in Israel, who think of themselves as being "better" (the reason for my comparing them to the Pharisees of Jesus' day) than most other Jews living in Israel and especially those Jews who are living in other lands (outside of Israel).

The religious Jews and many "conservative" Jews living in Israel have a special affinity to the LAND of Israel, and as such they cannot understand why other Jews would prefer to live somewhere else (outside of the land of Israel).

If I gave the impression that they didn't believe that the Jews living outside of Israel weren't Jews - then again, I apologize. It's not so much that they don't consider them Jews, as they (the religious Jews in Israel) don't consider them (Jews living outside of the land of Israel) to be as "good" a Jew as themselves.

I know that this is "nothing new", but I was merely trying to point out the difference in the "attitude" between many Jews living in Israel and many Jews that live outside the land (I wasn't "taking sides" with, or judging who is right and who is wrong in regards to this "difference" - I was merely trying to point out that a "difference" exists.).

Having said all of the above, I have a hard time understanding why you are so upset with what I said. I was trying to inform you (and others on the Forum) about the difference in "attitude" between many Jews living in the land of Israel and most of the Jews living outside of the land. I was not making any accusations or taking sides in their differences, but many Americans are not aware of these differences and I believe they should be.

Many of the Jews living in Israel have an extremely strong affinity for THE LAND of Israel (some people would describe them as being "fanatical"), and in this love of THE LAND of Israel they distinguish themselves from many other Jews living in Israel and most of the Jews living outside of Israel.

Israel is not only a divided land - at this point in time they are a "divided" people. If we Americans think that our country is divided and in chaos, Israel is even more so. I do not believe that most Americans are aware of the divisiveness that exists between the Israelites living in the land or the precarious position that Israel is in - in regards to the rest of the world.

The fact that they are so divided (religiously, socially, & politically) is the reason that they are weaker (as a nation) than they have been for the last 30 or more years. They "lost" the recent war in Lebanon because they no longer have the resolve to defeat their enemies and win a war (reminds me of the United States since the end of World War II).

My Post #5 was meant to inform. It was NOT intended as a criticism of Jews (inside or outside of Israel). I gave a bunch of web site addresses so that anyone interested in the subject might inform themselves of this issue and that they might receive information that the mainstream press inside the U.S.A. is not providing and what the two major Israeli newspapers, "Haaretz" and "The Jerusalem Post" also fail to provide. (Haaretz would be the "equivalent" to The New York Times {extremely "Liberal"}, and The Jerusalem Post would be the equivalent to the Washington Post {very "Liberal"})

We need to be informed. People should be aware that our President (George Bush) and our "extremely bright" Secretary of State (Condoleeza Rice) have been trying to force Israel to give up land that God promised to them (in perpetuity) almost 4,000 years ago!

People should be aware that the United States has been exerting tremendous pressure on Israel (through fear, intimidation, threats, extortion, and coercion) for many years (Nixon - 1973 Yom Kipper War; Carter - "Peace Treaty" between the "Palestinians" and Israel; Clinton - failed "Peace Treaty"; and now Bush & Rice - The so-called "Road Map to Peace".)

Brother, please don't get me wrong. I'm rooting for the Jews - even though they are not yet converted (as a nation), I wholeheartedly support them and am disappointed and dismayed at the way we (our government) have treated them over the past 35 years or more.

I hope I have made myself clearer this time, if I haven't, please ask any questions or make any comments or criticisms known to me and I will try to deal with them.

Originally Posted by George

At the present time, today's Jews have no Temple (to make the sacrifices in), and no Priests (to make the sacrifices), thus the Jewish animal sacrifices ceased with the destruction of the Temple and the scattering of the Jews throughout the world.

Yes, that's always been my understanding, too. The sacrifices will be reinstituted when the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt.

[atlas]

George,

I never once even "hinted" that the Jews living outside of Israel weren't "real" Jews. Again I was trying to convey what I have read from the religious Jews abiding in Israel, who think of themselves as being "better" (the reason for my comparing them to the Pharisees of Jesus' day) than most other Jews living in Israel and especially those Jews who are living in other lands (outside of Israel).

It's so funny, some Russian Jew got off the boat in Israel two years ago now other Jews in the rest of the world are not real Jews. That is the point of my post. I'm not offended by your post. My wife was not very happy about your quoting the " REAL JEWS. " Every Jew I know thinks they are REAL JEWS right here in Texas.

The religious Jews and many "conservative" Jews living in Israel have a special affinity to the LAND of Israel, and as such they cannot understand why other Jews would prefer to live somewhere else (outside of the land of Israel).

I understand it. Most do not want to live with the Muslims over there with all of the killing and bombing. I can't blame them really. d not want to live there either.

I'll also be more than happy to email you a list of REAL AMERCIAN JEWS you can talk to them if you'd like. I also will send some Rabbi contact information if you would like to talk to them about this information. If you want any of this information email me and I'll shoot it to you. Most will tell you about the same thing I have told you, it's very unsafe to live in Israel and they will also tell you about the sacrificing of animals. Jews are an odd lot my friend. I do not fit in with them very we they tend to be very clannish. We seem to get along most of the time and they like me. They just think I'm a very good financial planner and a Redneck Bible thumper. They do admit I know the Bible well, but that's just about it. Trying to get a Jew converted is a real job my friend.

I have learned a few good things about the O.T. being with them, but much of it seems to be miss applied. You need to talk with a Jew one day about Isa. 53 and see what they tell you, it's funny in a way and in a way it's sad.



Atlas

[atlas]

George and VR,

Yes, that's always been my understanding, too. The sacrifices will be reinstituted when the Temple in Jerusalem is rebuilt.

You both are correct, that is what some Jews are waiting for. They will not do any sacrificing animals here. They kind of blow it off when you ask, ( like stated in my above post ) but they must wait to fulfill what the Bible says, even if they do not believe or know it yet. One day their eyes will be reopened, but not this day. We must hurry my friends, for we ( Gentiles ) shall soon be cut off, our time is almost up. God will turn back to the Jews very soon indeed.

Rom. 11 Tells us all about this. The Jews going out, our coming in and then going out with the Jews coming back in.

Romans 11

1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel saying,

3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear; unto this day.

9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:

10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.

11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?

13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?

16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.

17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;

18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.

20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.

24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?

25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.

26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.

29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.

30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?

35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

Atlas