I am currently reading this book written by Samuel E. Waldron. Has anyone else read it? I would love to hear comments from others...

Soli Deo Gloria!

[Luke]

We speak English, not latin :P

Glory to God Alone

Being reformed in theology, I am going to assume that he takes any judgment (1 Cor 3:11-16 for example) to be the Great White Throne, Matthew 25 to be the Great White Throne, and makes no right divisions.

Here are some differences between Matt 25 and the Great White Throne

Matt 25 Judgment is On earth - the Great White Throne is in heaven, after the earth has fled away

Matt 25 Judgment is judging the living nations, the GWT judges the dead

Matt 25 There are no books, but they are judged by their works and service, GWT, there are books and they are judged out of what is written in the books.

Matt 25 There are sheeps and goats. Not all are damned. At the GWT, ALL are damned.

I can't remember the others right now.

[Luke]

Here are the end times made simple

- RAPTURE - Body of Christ removed to be with the Head

- TRIBULATION - Judgment of Israel

- RETURN OF CHRIST - Redemption of Israel

- MILLENNIAL KINGDOM - Reign of Israel

- ARMAGEDDON - Destruction of Satan

- GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT - Judgment of the damned (both men and angels)

- ETERNITY - Glory to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit forever more, amen.

[Luke]

Sorry Brother, I don't intend to sound aggravated

[atlas]

Eric,

Has anyone else read it?

No I have not because he is wrong on much of his theology. As Luke pointed out he has some real big problems. I hate to see you waste your money & time reading after him.

You do not have like or read Ruckman. Try C.I. Scofeild or H. A. Ironside or Clarence Larkin. At least they had most of their theology right.

If you think the world is getting better and we are going to bring in the Kingdom Age, I suggest you open your eyes and take a good look at the world around you my friend. We are in the last days, the great falling away. It is getting worse all of the time. Common sense & basic Bible knowledge should you that the church age is coming to an end very soon.

2. Thess. 2:1-3

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,

2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.

3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;

We are in the falling away right now friend. We are in the new theological dark ages my friend.

Rev. 3:14-22

14 And unto the angel of the church of the Laodiceans write; These things saith the Amen, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation of God;

15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

17 Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:

18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

19 As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.

21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with me in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne.

22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Now for a few comments about few of these verses.

15 & 16 we lukewarm, that says it all.


Verse 17.

You do not need a degree in economics ( I do have by the way. ) to know that the world is " richer " right now than any time in the past. We have a higher living standard today than ever in the history of the world. Yet we have" happy pills " and trust me I know millionaires personally that take them by the hand full. Trust me many people are " wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: " Sadly we have more debt than ever before, so we may have a very high living standards, but we own very little. Look at our real debt. We owe more than any time in history and own less. Many are blind to the truth of God's Word, even folks who claim to believe God's Word will tell you there is no perfect translation they can obtain and all translations have errors. Their only final authority is their own mind. No time in history has man kind wore less clothes than today. We have turned our back on God's Word, and you can see the ramifications of it in today's world my friend. The porn industry makes more than the NFL, NBA, MLB and NHL all put together. Just look at how people dress on the streets and on the TV. I have seen little girls ( 12 & 13 ) that show so much thigh they look worse than street walkers. There are hookers downtown Dallas or Fort Worth Texas that dress better ( more clothes ) than some of these young girls. This breaks my heart. Just open your eyes, all of this is very simple to see my friend. Open your Bible, KJV and open your eyes.

Verse 18.

Our only hope is to get back to God's Word and start living right.

Verse 19.

Payday is coming soon, unless we repent.

Verse 20.

We can repent and turn back God, sadly for the most part most of the church will not do this.




Atlas

If you think the world is getting better and we are going to bring in the Kingdom Age, I suggest you open your eyes and take a good look at the world around you my friend. We are in the last days, the great falling away. It is getting worse all of the time. Common sense & basic Bible knowledge should you that the church age is coming to an end very soon.

I am Amillennial not Post-millennial. The world is getting worse. The church will be here until the Second Coming. Which means whatever misery the world goes through the church will suffer right on through it for the Glory of God! Post-millennial people believe the world gets better, this false belief was the seed of the social gospel - I reject that.

Originally Posted by Luke

Here are the end times made simple

- RAPTURE - Body of Christ removed to be with the Head

- TRIBULATION - Judgment of Israel

- RETURN OF CHRIST - Redemption of Israel

- MILLENNIAL KINGDOM - Reign of Israel

- ARMAGEDDON - Destruction of Satan

- GREAT WHITE THRONE JUDGMENT - Judgment of the damned (both men and angels)

- ETERNITY - Glory to God the Father, Son and Holy Spirit forever more, amen.

In Waldron's book he discusses the two ages mentioned throughout Scripture. I think it to be a very compelling argument... Anyway, if you ever get a chance, read the book. If only to better understand your own argument. By the way, I used to hold to what you listed above and my whole church holds to it now. What intially lead me astray was the fruit that I saw produced from it. So called prophecy people use the "end times" to improperly espouse conspiracy theories and cause fear mongering among the believers. I do not find this to be edifying for the body of Christ. Rather, Christians should be told that regardless of what happens they will need to hold fast and strong to faith and prepare for the persecution that is to come...

[Debau]

Originally Posted by ericwgreene

I am Amillennial not Post-millennial. The world is getting worse. The church will be here until the Second Coming. Which means whatever misery the world goes through the church will suffer right on through it for the Glory of God! .

1 Thessalonians 1:10 And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.

1 Thessalonians 5:9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,

Romans 5:9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him.

Revelation 3:10 Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.

Debau, you make a good point... Let's discuss the phrase "wrath to come." Does this refer to the tribulation time period or the Lake of Fire?

Take a look at this article.
http://olivetdiscourse.com/index.php...=262&Itemid=43

The author's viewpoint, "It is our conviction that the post-tribulational, pre-millennial return of Jesus Christ is clearly revealed in the inspired Word of God, and that this position was held firmly by the earliest Church Fathers immediately following the apostles."

[pbiwolski]

I imagine ERIC's Bible reading may go something like this...

Rev. 20:1-8
1. And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2. And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (well, I don't believe this)
3. And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years (I don't believe this either) should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4. And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. (whatever)
5. But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years (can't be real) were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6. Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years. (I don't think so)
7. And when the thousand years (NOT) are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8. And shall go out to deceive the nations...