Questions from a non-KJVO

brandog130 · 02-24-2009, 01:41 PM

Hey guys,

I'm new here and I've been browsing this site and the rest of the internet for some time, but I have had trouble coming up with the answers I was looking for. I'm sure there out there somewhere but I figured it'd be easiest just to ask directly since I find most people rather enjoy discussing what they believe anyway.

I'm going to come clean: I'm not a KJVO, but give me a chance. I'm sure you're used to people coming in and trollinng, ranting, and belittling and I'm not here to do that. I just honestly have trouble completely understanding the view and I'm sure this is the place to fix that.

I have many, many questions, but I guess the best one to start with is: why the 1611 KJV? (Why not an earlier English translation? Is there such thing as an inspired non-English version or is the KJV the only inspired English version? Was there an inspired version before man had the KJV?)

I suppose ended up being more than one question, but the parenthetical ones probably help explain where I'm coming from.

Thanks,
-Brandon

Winman · 02-24-2009, 06:53 PM

Hi Brandon

Well, for me it started when I read Matthew 4:4

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

The word "every" really jumped out at me. How could God expect us to live by every word that proceeds from His mouth unless he has provided every word for us?

And then the famous verses in Psalms chapter 12

Psalms 12:6 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. 7 Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Now what does "pure" mean? To me, pure means without corruption or error. And in verse 7 God promises to preserve his "pure" word for ever.

So, I knew one of the versions of the Bible was the actual Word of God. After study, I came to believe the King James Bible.

bibleprotector · 02-24-2009, 08:46 PM

"For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled." (Matthew 5:18).

The Scripture, knowledge of it, and the ability to access it exactly is not to be lost in human history. God is powerful enough to keep His Word through history. God is powerful enough to cause the right manuscripts to be gathered together at the right time by the right people with the right learning, so that they could judge rightly what exactly is the Word of God: the King James Bible.

Quote:

why the 1611 KJV? (Why not an earlier English translation? Is there such thing as an inspired non-English version or is the KJV the only inspired English version? Was there an inspired version before man had the KJV?)

Most enemies of KJBO say or imply that we believe that the KJB translators were inspired 1604-1611. However, most KJBO people do not believe that.

When you look at the English Bibles of the Reformation, you can observe general improvement through time. However, improvement is not an ongoing or never ending process. It is toward a definite end, namely, to arrive at a perfect text (the words and their order right) and perfect translation (the exact sense of the originals given in English).

If you look at (the makers of) modern versions, they deny that they contain the exact text and a perfect translation, and they deny that it is even attainable. They have a doctrine that no one can exceed 99.9% accuracy, and all their versions differ to some degree, so that in fact each new modern version, and continuing modern textual studies is actually raising the variety, uncertainty, confusion and therefore non-absoluteness of the Word of God.

If you look at the external history of the KJB, you will find that the signs are there showing that it is consistent with being right and being God's plan and choice. If you look at the internal consistency, you will find that it is always accurate, self-authenticating. Whatever the Scripture in the KJB says, when you apply it to the KJB, it is always right. And every so called "textual error", "translation error" never holds up when you study within the KJB, and every "contradiction" can always be explained within the KJB, so that there is only consistency on its own authority.

stephanos · 02-25-2009, 04:39 AM

Brandon, here is a good place to get started:

http://www.bbaptist.org/which_version.pdf

If that is to much of a read for you (it is pretty exhaustive), here are a few links with information that you can parouse.

http://www.buzzardhut.net/index/htm/Biblehist.htm
http://www.jesus-is-lord.com/kjvdefen.htm
http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...king_james.htm
http://samgipp.com/historybook/

Well, there you have it. You have more information than you'd get from any single source on this forum. But you wanna know what the best way to understand why we believe the 1611 Authorized Version is the inerrant infallible Word of God is? Prayer and faith.

If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. (James 1:5-6 KJV)

If you will get down on your knees and ask the Lord to shew you which Bible He wants you to have faith in, He WILL shew you.

If you find something specifically confusing in your studies please feel free to ask us here. Many of us would love to help an honestly curious mind seeking Truth and Spirt.

But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. (John 4:23 KJV)

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

tonybones2112 · 02-26-2009, 12:28 AM

Brandon, as a new member I am under temporary moderation, this may take a day or so to reach you.

The question you ask is one I never considered. I am not demeaning your question, I personally, for my own satisfaction, never considered it important. Your question is valid however. You drop in on many KJV partisans as not exactly a KJV Only person and war breaks out. You asked a question in a non combative way, I think you are honestly seeking answers. I'm a veteran of many KJV Only forums and the discussion can get combative, both pro and con.

I cannot answer that question, only that the purposes of God are not always revealed to us. It could easily have been a Queen Elizabeth Version if it were to His purposes. The Bible states that God respects human government, since he set it up(Romans 13). James was just a time in history when the time was right. He was a king who made an order that honored God. The translators were honest, and God has apparently chosen it as the vessel of His Whole Counsel. God knew English would be probably the predominant language and many foreign language versions come from it and the underlying texts.

I have in my hands the pure words of God, without provable error. It works effectually in those who believe it. The NIV may CONTAIN His words, it is not the version He speaks through.

There are several people who have taken the seven purifications of Psalms 12:6-7 as 7 translations and/or periods of time that the word of God is purified in English, and they seem to make a pretty good case, Dr. Peter Ruckman's exposition particularly.

I will post a message on King James and have much to say myself on the topic of the KJV if you are interested. I'm currently working on a book called THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FRAUD. I will maintain comments on this thread as long as you desire to read it and will give you the key to one of the most misunderstood doctrines in Christianity: What is "inspiration"?

Grace and peace

Tony Bones

Biblestudent · 02-26-2009, 11:00 AM

brandog130, inspiration is meaningless without preservation. A grasp of the doctrines of Biblical inspiration and preservation will give you the answers you're looking for. I suggest that's where you start.

Here are some threads that you can check:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=293
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....ht=inspiration
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....ht=inspiration
There are many more.

Biblestudent · 02-26-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

I will post a message on King James and have much to say myself on the topic of the KJV if you are interested. I'm currently working on a book called THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FRAUD.

That's interesting, brother!

JOHN G · 02-26-2009, 11:30 AM

Act 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

This verse not being in the NIV (and some others, and bracketed in others) lit the fuse that led me to the KJB.

In Christ!

02-26-2009, 03:17 PM

Brandog; I have seven words for you:

Know thine enemy.
Here is their creed:
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=856

George · 02-26-2009, 05:29 PM

"

Quote:

I will post a message on King James and have much to say myself on the topic of the KJV if you are interested. I'm currently working on a book called THE ORIGINAL MANUSCRIPT FRAUD. I will maintain comments on this thread as long as you desire to read it and will give you the key to one of the most misunderstood doctrines in Christianity: What is "inspiration"?"

Aloha Tony Bones,

The following Link to a Thread on this Forum is the best explanation of "The Inspiration of Scripture" that I have read in 40 years of reading and studying about "Which Bible" is God's Holy word. I hope that it may be of some help.

http://av1611.com/forums/showpost.ph...19&postcount=1

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