Me and my wife had my nephew and his wife and kid over for dinner this past Saturday night. During the dinner conversation, my nephew states that, as a saved person, he sees nothing wrong with listening to rock-n-roll and playing Grand Theft Auto games. (Sometimes, i get the feeling that he wants to see me back doing all those thing with him as I was doing before I got saved) Him and his wife made the comment that they worship God in their own way and we (me and my wife) really don't know what to say to them. Any verses you can provide could help... Also, does anyone else ever get the feeling that some people say they're saved just to get you to stop witnessing to them?

[Diligent]

It's hard to suggest anything without knowing what is meant by "their own way." As far as worshiping according to your "own" ideas, I would think the example of Cain and Able applies -- Indeed, a first reading of Genesis by someone who is unfamiliar with God's demands of blood sacrifices is likely to view God as being unjust when they come along and reads of Able's vs. Cain's sacrifices. Cain sacrificed "his way" and likely thought he would still please God because of his work, but God was interested in obedience, not work.

However, and I think this is very important: listening to music and playing video games has nothing to do with worship and especially salvation -- either way. Your last comment makes you appear to doubt the authenticity of their salvation because of those things. I would be more concerned with where their trust lies than what kind of music they listen to.

[Paladin54]

It's so to hear this because I just stopped "worshipping God" in this way. It's so embarrassing to say how people could look up to me spiritually and I was lying to myself making excuses about how I really was worshipping God. I got it from a rather liberal teaching at my rather coservative youth group years ago, and we mis-interpreted it.

In short, the best advice I can give is to say that these things displease God: evil lyrics and simulating a mass-murderer. This idea really can't stand up to exposure or logic.
What it is is that the person is trying to defend the use of their lazy or evil means of entertainment and somehow call it worship. For example, I played video games for an untold reason (that weren't necessarily bad) and called it worshipping God. It was pathetic. What I didn't know is that God had a huge purpose for me and Satan only wanted to distract me from that.

Because of this, I haven't played video games for over 7 months. It is an addiction, and the hardest argument with yourself is that you'll be worhsipping somehow.
My flesh will say "but you're playing the character you want to have serve God"
Pathetic reasoning, I know, but all of it is when you're fighting an addiction. Video games are just as addicting as drugs and alchohol.
I say "What if You yourself was that hero that you're playing/praising?" God has a great many things to teach you.

When someone (like a brother) confronts you of your pathetic state, you get defensive and fight tooth and nail to defend your reasoning. I am currently fighting for my sister's heart on this matter, pray for her.

The chains on me are broken but my heart breaks because so many people decieve themselves and believe that their slothfulness is worhsippping God, but I understand them because I am one of them. The release from captivity is the hardest part. When Satan knows he's losing a fortress, he will do everything in his power to protect his evil foothold on the saint's heart.

Diligent, I agree with you that music or playing violent video games has nothing to do with salvation and, praise the Lord, we cannot lose our salvation even if I was to go right back to smoking and drinking. If someone outside my family came up to me and say he's saved, I'd say amen even if he was to be wearing a marylin manson t-shirt. But this is a family member, thus my heart gets more concerned about the genuinity of his salvation. I've never heard him say "Lord Jesus Christ" or that he trust in the blood of Jesus or say that called on the name of Lord and got saved. It's more of, "It's a feeling I have..." Then it's "I don't think God will smite you for (insert obvious sins here such as lying, stealing, pornography, or whatever..)" It's just their witnessing and they seem so stagnant in their growth and, since they're family, I am concerned if they just went for easy believism or if thay had genuinely trusted in the Saviour. If he told me he trusted in the blood of Jesus as the Only Way to Heaven, then I would leave it alone...

As far as listening to music and playing violent video games go, I have a personal experience to share. I did dabble in them for a time after I got saved. (I even had a stash of pornography in my closet...) I was just starting to get into the Word... the main Bible I read the first year I got saved was the KJV, with NIV on the side that was giving to me by my aunt... Then after awhile, I just got to thinking, God would not be pleased with any of this, my smoking habit went first through prayer, and then I stoped playing the video games because it does feel like I am doing the deed of killing and don't want to do anything that simulate all that blood and gore and the porno went out of my closet... The music was another matter, but over the past three years I just want to hear it less and less, especially those that makes a mockery of my faith or, even worse, making a mockery of Christ sacrifice, which like "Chop Suey" by System of a Down would...

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by timothy

I've never heard him say "Lord Jesus Christ" or that he trust in the blood of Jesus or say that called on the name of Lord and got saved. It's more of, "It's a feeling I have..."

Brother, I would share your concerns as well. I "worry" (I don't know a better word) for any one's salvation who doesn't express their complete trust in Christ's work.

After I posted what i posted yesterday, I got to thinking about it. So, last night, as I was driving him home, talking about the Iraq War and the Muslims... When the topic of "convert or die" came up, he said something to the effect of, "Mabe that what we should do" and I said NO! I explained that I do not want anyone, including the terrorists bent on ending my life, to go to Hell. I told him about the wrath of God that is on all of us unless we're truly saved and that this is why I have gospel tracts on me, because I do not want anyone to go there. We're all deserving of it. The only way to escape is by trusting in what Jesus had done for us, and he said he did that, so, even if he mention the line "asking Jesus into his heart" which I know is not scriptural, but he told me he had called on the name of the Lord last night, so... I leave it to God and maybe the Holy Spirit could convict him of some things just as had happened with me over the years and is still continually happening...

timothy, sounds like he is involved in the emerging church movement.. best be careful with that, it's confusing..

Originally Posted by timothy

Me and my wife had my nephew and his wife and kid over for dinner this past Saturday night. During the dinner conversation, my nephew states that, as a saved person, he sees nothing wrong with listening to rock-n-roll and playing Grand Theft Auto games. (Sometimes, i get the feeling that he wants to see me back doing all those thing with him as I was doing before I got saved) Him and his wife made the comment that they worship God in their own way and we (me and my wife) really don't know what to say to them. Any verses you can provide could help... Also, does anyone else ever get the feeling that some people say they're saved just to get you to stop witnessing to them?

I always try to get right to the heart of the matter with people and their spiritual state. Clarifying questions like "If you died right now, where would you go?" However they respond my response is similar..."How do you know?" If their response is Heaven and you say "How do you know?" and then they say "because I got baptized" or "my Dad's a pastor" or "I grew up in a Christian home" or "I'm a good person" or "I go to church", (do you understand what I'm driving at) basically anything other then some expression of a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, such as "I got saved", "I accepted Jesus as my Saviour", etc. But don't stop there, because we live in a corrupted age easy-believism gospel many people just said a "repeat-after-me, 1-2-3 prayer" and they think they are saved. Drill deeper, for example, if someone tells me they are saved I role-play with them and say "If I came to you and told you I didn't want to die and go to Hell and asked you what I need to do to go to Heaven, what would you tell me?" Then close your mouth and let them respond, you'll be amazed at what you hear...or don't hear.

Jot&Tittle

Originally Posted by Diligent

It's hard to suggest anything without knowing what is meant by "their own way." As far as worshiping according to your "own" ideas, I would think the example of Cain and Able applies -- Indeed, a first reading of Genesis by someone who is unfamiliar with God's demands of blood sacrifices is likely to view God as being unjust when they come along and reads of Able's vs. Cain's sacrifices. Cain sacrificed "his way" and likely thought he would still please God because of his work, but God was interested in obedience, not work.

However, and I think this is very important: listening to music and playing video games has nothing to do with worship and especially salvation -- either way. Your last comment makes you appear to doubt the authenticity of their salvation because of those things. I would be more concerned with where their trust lies than what kind of music they listen to.

I think it makes a big difference in how you live your life, what music one listens too, how we live is proof of what we believe. As to works this really says it all. We can lose our salvation if we don't produce fruits/work
John 15:1-2

"I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. 2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit.
John 15:5-7

5 "I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.
NKJV

The Bible does not teach you can lose your salvation - Jesus ONLY gives eternal life. What it does teach is that there is chastisement for the believer who walks in unrepentant sin. God will speak, spank, scourge, then separate by death the unrepentant believer (if they refuse to heed His previous chastising). The chastening by death is what is referred to by the phrase "he taketh away."

John 15:2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

He doesn't take their salvation away from them - He takes them away from this world.