[Luke]

Let me ask you a question, ladies and gentlemen: Do you think Balaam was a great Christian because he could say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that it may be that one cause for Balaam's greatness was his willingness to say, "I have sinned"? Do you think that Saul became a great man because he could say, "I have sinned"? One of the reasons Job was a mature and upright man, perhaps, was that he was willing to say, "I have sinned."

This is from his sermon "I have sinned" which is quite touching in many ways, but I read this and thought..

1) Baalam wasn't a Christian, and neither was anyone else in the OT.
2) Baalam was a lost man and so was Saul??

[kevinvw]

2Pe 2:15 Which have forsaken the right way, and are gone astray, following the way of Balaam the son of Bosor, who loved the wages of unrighteousness;

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

Rev 2:14 But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.

Yeah, neither were Christians, and both were lost. Saul lost the Holy Spirit for being a wicked and evil king and Balaam was a baal worshipper and a fool. I wouldn't say either is a good example for a Christian, or anybody, unless you want to wind up in hell. The fact that they could admit that they sinned is good, but they were obviously lacking in the parts that really matter.

[chette777]

Jud 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

this is an interesting scripture describing Israel int he last day.
1) they have become a murder of their brother (brethren)
2) they have become sexual immoral and mixed their blood
3) they have become ones who seek after positions of Authority both religious and civil.

sorry I didn't mean to hijack your post.

[Luke]

Hijack it all you want.. I have noticed a few IFB's doing this.. calling OT saints "Christians". One of them even goes as far as saying the first Christian family was Adam and Eve.. (I think that was Jack Hyles too...)

[peopleoftheway]

1 Chronicles 10:13 So Saul died for his transgression which he committed against the LORD, even against the word of the LORD, which he kept not, and also for asking counsel of one that had a familiar spirit, to inquire of it;

How strikingly similar is the story of Saul going to seek a "familiar" spirit because the Lord had not spoken to him, to that of many professed Christians today who, because they dont "feel" the presence of God they seek to "feel" through "familiar spirits" Charismatics, Pentecostal worship (sensual music, singing, lyrics) and the like and commit transgressions against the word of the Lord by adding and taking away from the Glorious Book (Modern versions, Social Gospel). Now I am not saying that pentecostals or the like are not saved I cannot judge ANYONE'S salvation, but the story is an indication of how grievous the error of seeking a familiar spirit is.


Jude 1:11 Woe unto them! for they have gone in the way of Cain, and ran greedily after the error of Balaam for reward, and perished in the gainsaying of Core.

(I know that Jude is comparing to Sodom and Gomorrahs transgressions)
How similar is this verse to todays so called pastors and evangelists who twist the word of God and preach a false Gospel for the sake of a few dollars, I could list many but sadly it would make this post way too long.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Acts 11:26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch.

Definitely no Christians in the Old testament, saints but not Christians.

[chette777]

Jack would have been on medications to have made such a blooper as to call Adam and Eve the first Christians family. however it goes well with the theology that those in the OT were looking FORWARD to the cross.

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by Luke

Hijack it all you want.. I have noticed a few IFB's doing this.. calling OT saints "Christians". One of them even goes as far as saying the first Christian family was Adam and Eve.. (I think that was Jack Hyles too...)

I find fault with some of Bro Hyles teachings but he is probably more right on than most...

Why sit there and insult a man that served God with his life. He may not have been perfect but neither is anyone else on this forum including myself.

[peopleoftheway]

Where exactly did Brother Luke insult him? In fact he said no more about it than you, that he knew some of his teachings werent sound

[Just_A_Thought]

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

Where exactly did Brother Luke insult him? In fact he said no more about it than you, that he knew some of his teachings werent sound

When he said " I know Jack Hyles isn't the most sound, but what is this? " It is his title. The title is rather rude.

[Luke]

Well, I've done the same with John MacArthur and Ruckman, so I can hardly be called a respecter of persons in regards to a mans ministry.

Hyles is dead. I am not trying to stomp on his grave. I was just wondering if this was error, or if Saul and Baalam were saved men. It seemed like Hyles had twisted the truth (or ignored the latter half of Saul and Balaam's life) in order to preach a good message. The message preaches well. It's convicting. It's heartfelt. It helped me to see a few things I hadn't before, but I was just comparing it to scripture.

If Eternal Security was true in the OT, then Balaam and Saul would both be saved right now. If it's not, then they aren't.

Which leads me to another question

1) Is Solomon saved? There is no record of solomon humbling himself before God (that I know of).
2) Is Ahab saved? In 1 Kings, he humbles himself before God shortly before he dies, and God stays off the wickedness upon Israel until after Ahab dies. God commends his humility to Elijah.