[chette777]

I hope the following helps some of you understand a Gap view without supporting evolution.

When many people hear Gap theory right away they think of a group of Christians ministers who support a theory of a Gap that gives room for evolutionary postulation that the earth and its creatures have been evolving. While still trying to hold on to the scriptural view of man being created sometime in the last 6 to 10 thousand years. This Theory is not only wrong but dangerous.

And as a result people have conclude there is no gap between Gen1:1 and Gen 1:2. With some scriptures they pose a great argument. But as one who studies the scriptures everyday and in discussions with other like minded men in Christ. Have discovered we don’t fully agree with these teachings of the Evolutionary Gap Theory and the No Gap Theory.

While many men have helped to promote the idea of a Gap of time between Gen 1 and 2 that do not believe in the Evolutionary Gap theory. Very few have tried to concisely put it into a one volume writing that is inline with Biblical context, Scriptural support and Scientific facts. This is a work in process and editing will be done and scriptures will be added as this work continues to it’s completion.

It is currently known as the Non-Evolutionary Gap theory, we hope to call it by a different name but for now it will do to serve the purpose of separating it from any other. The following is an unfinished work that should give a good idea what this theory is, promotes, and what it does not promote. Pros and cons are welcomed and may be sent arched@live.com to help facilitate its completion and to promote clarity of the points.

The Non-Evolutionary Gap
What is the Purpose of Creating the Earth?

The Earth is self is mentioned as a separate creation from the Heaven. What reason would God want to single out this place among any other that existed in his Heaven? And because God mentions it here and with supporting scripture we will see that the earth is indeed older than current six thousands years. Gen 1:1 and supported by Job 38:4-7 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it? Thereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy? This shows that there were beings including Lucifer were present before the earth was created.

The next verses in Job speaks of the sea it's being bound and the creation of the Stars. so Lucifer and the other Angelic beings were actually alive before the Stars were created. Some like Kent Hovin and other young earth theorist, teach that it was at the time of the stars or the fourth day of creation, that Lucifer and the other sons of God was created. But how can they were shouting for Joy if they hadn't been created yet?

Well, They would have had to been created before the firmament and the appearance of dry land. according to the LORD's testimony in Job and Genesis Chapter one. It is best to believe he was created in eternity some time between the Heaven and the Earth Genesis 1:1

We believe that because Lucifer was around before the earth was created. That some time after a perfect heaven and earth was created Lucifer fell. Trying to exalt a throne that God never gave him Isaiah 14:12-14. Only in this world and time does he have a principality and dominion and dark powers in the heavenlies with a possible throne on earth of any kind which some claimed to be vacated to him when Adam fell. And he will try and establish during the Great Tribulation. It was this Pridefulness that led to his fall and the destruction of the original earth.

So, what was Lucifer doing on the Earth?

Well the whole context of the Bible is to the glorification of the Son of God, and the whole of the books of Scripture is cumulated in the Establishment of a Throne for the Lamb. Throughout the Bible we have seen that God wants men to be the servants of his Son. God chose a particular man to produce a nation to receive the Oracles of God, Israel, then a multitude of Gentiles to praise and glorify the Son, Lamb, Jesus Christ through faith. We will cover the creation of man a little later. But the completion of the Bible lets us se this purpose in action by way of Prophecy in the final chapters of Revelation.

Now, if the Throne on Earth has been God's plan from Eternity which is what all scriptures point too, a throne in eternity. Even Jesus verifies this point when he said, “ Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.” John 5:39 the whole of Scriptures speak of the glory and the kingdom to be given to Jesus Christ. Which ends in him on a glorious throne in a glorious city in the fullness of the eternal kingdom.

There is a possibility that God knowing all things asked his most powerful and anointed cherub Lucifer to get involved in it's construction of a throne which will be housed in the New Jerusalem in the future. It was this Throne that stumbled Lucifer in his pride. It was his pride that brought God’s judgement on the Earth with a flood of waters.

We do not believe that Lucifer was on the earth creating all sorts of gigantic race of reptiles or any other such creatures that modern science tries to prove with Evolution. We can only connect Lucifer with a throne by scriptures at this point in eternity.

Henceforth, we find Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. You will notice the word waters is plural. There is not land to separate the waters so why the plural use of the word?

Again you will notice that God is light, and in the end Revelation 21-22 there is no darkness because God is light. Originally there was no darkness for in purity and perfection of heaven there is only light in God’s presence. This Darkness too was brought in by Lucifer’s sin. Darkness go hand in hand with sin and there are too many Bible verse to list here. The point being darkness began before the 6days creation and none of us are in disagreement about that. But it had to appear some time before the 6 day creation purpose and in the beginning God created.

On the note of the Firmament, it was created to keep the Darkness contained. Once the firmament was created, it became a barrier or separation between God and his six day creation. Which God could not declare it was good that day. Though later he would declare all he had made to be good. The reason is it declared good in vs 31 is that it serves a purpose and the good will of God.

We believe from the creation on the first night and day when God called forth for light and God established a 24 hour day as we call it 12 night time hours and12 daylight hours. That God had a new purpose proposed for the now desolate earth.

During the following days after the firmament God separated the earth from the sea, created all the fish in the seas, the birds of the air, the beasts of the fields and all creeping things. But if God had stopped there, what was the purpose of establishing 24 hour days and creating all sorts of animal and insect life?

The answer is God had a purpose in creating the earth from the beginning and he was now re-establishing that purpose. But his time with an added twist He created a being in their own image. Which tells us that no other being was like man. So the earth in its current form is for man. For what need does God have for sun and moon and stars to shed light and tell of seasons and times? None.

So the whole of the six day creation was for the purpose of housing a new creature, Man and to continue the original plan of God to establish a throne for his Son, the Lamb, the Word our Lord Jesus Christ. This was God purpose in creating the Earth from Eternity was to glorify His Son. Revelation reveals that he will do it still. The earth is older than the current six thousand year creation. Because Lucifer and the others sons of God were there when if was first established in Gen 1:1. God mentions the Earth only because He has a special purpose for the earth and that purpose is to Glorify His Son and Establish His Throne on it for all eternity.

Where did the fossil record come from?

Very simply, Science where science confirms the Bible should be used for establishing this. We are in total agreement with the teaching of others that there is a fossil record of creatures well beyond normal sizes of today’s species.

No problem, these creatures lived along side man from Adam until the flood and the fossil record is a recording for man that God did indeed flood the earth a second time for the purpose of destroying wicked men and a demonic race of beings called the Nephilim or giants men of renowned.. One thing we don’t agree with on the Non Gap guys is that the Sons of God in Gen 6 are of the godly line of Seth. And they were matting with the daughters of Cain.

There were no such people for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God. All men including all but one of Seth’s thousands of Children, grandchildren and great grandchildren were destroyed. If his line was so godly then why didn’t God spare them or the whole earth for that matter? Because they did not exist.

The sons of God are under every reference were Satan and his angels. They were there trying to procreate with man and successfully they created giants. They may have been involved in other experimentation, which modern man is only now dabbling in, genetics. Which resulted in other types of creatures like Satyrs, Mermaids, Harpies and the like, that we find mentioned throughout world mythology. The purpose of this mixing of the son of God and the daughters of men was to spoil the seed by which the saviour would come. Even after the flood we see the rise of Giants again in an attempt once again to spoilt the seed of man by which Christ would be born. This second flood did not result in another creation or recreation but just of a re-establishing of man and beast via Noah.

In Peters books he mentions the flood specifically because God is using his natural Cross referencing for man to see that in 2Pe 2:5 he is speaking of Noah’s flood. But you will see another of God’s cross reference which does not speak of Noah’s flood. But speaks of the Old earth being covered in water

2Peter 3:4-7 all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation (Gen 1:1). For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

The Beginning of Creation before the six day purpose found in Gen 1:1. That world was overflowed with water and that world perished (no longer existed). And the world that is now remains for the fire at the end of the Millennial reign of Christ. The Heavens earth, which are now, were created during the six days creation. The world today was made and completed in the Six days. But the world that then was no man ever seen it until after if was covered in water just as it was said in Gen1:2. So when Peter pens these words he is showing us that the first world was covered in water and the world that wa created is reserved for the fire for which it will melt away

So the fossil record is a record of God flooding the earth because of wickedness and demonic activities that had taken over the man and earth. It is not evidence for millions of years of Evolution. It is evidence of a flood that happened some 4000 plus years ago. That is where the fossil record comes from.

But the world that was before the six days creation, was covered in water in eternity for we find the Sprit of God hovering over it in Gen 1:2. And it was covered in water because Lucifer who had been building a throne took it for himself, and tried to thwart the purpose of God to exalt and glorify his Son. And that is Satan’s purpose today to thwart that kingdom and that throne from ever being established.

The conclusion is simple as to what a Non-Evolutionary Gap The Heaven and Earth were created perfect. Sometime during that creation in Gen 1:1 The sons of God or angelic beings wee created. Sometime before the Spirit of God is found hovering over the earth, Lucifer had tried to exalt a throne he called his throne. The only place a throne is mentioned to be established is here on earth. And it is the final resting place of God eternal throne which already exists upon the cloud in heaven Job 26:9.

Then God created the current world in six days, and later he flooded it with water to kill the inhabitants of that time including some sons of God, only to allow Noah to bring forth the creatures that God had chosen with him and his sons to repopulate the earth. Now we are still living in that creation waiting for the return of our Lord to gather us together with him nevermore to leave him, and he finishes his purposes for this current earth, at which time it will flee from his face along with the current first and second heaven which is held in the firmament. At which Time God will create a new Earth and place upon it a glorious city and within that City the Throne of God for which God will glorify his sons and the Son glorify God. Amen.

[chette777]

reminder this view does not support the Evolutionary Gap theory or Theistic Evolution and Progressive Creation or day-age theories.

[chette777]

Just so those who don't read the post. this does not support the secular Intelligent Design movement that has been sweeping the Nation either. we hold to Biblical Literalism and agree with much of what the Young earth proponents teach. we are at odds only in a couple of areas leading to our rendition of the Non-Evolution Gap Theory

[kevinvw]

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The gap theory can't be supported when you step away from the muddy unclear verses that you can make any interpretation from and look the clear verses that show it to be a farce.

Notice in verse 1, it says the heavens and the earth were finished, and ALL the host of them. Verse 2 says he rested from ALL his work which he had made. Verse 3 says he rested from ALL his work he had made. These three verses say that God rested after he created ALL the host of the heavens and the earth and ALL of the work had made. Everything was made in the six previous days unless you include this gap as being part of the creation God rested from.

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

In six days the LORD made heaven, and earth, the sea, and ALL that is in them. That means everything that dwells in the heavens, the earth, and the sea were created in the six day creation period.

Mar 10:6 But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female.

From the beginning of the creation? I thought angelic beings were only made at the beginning of creation. Sounds like Jesus didn't know about this gap.

Mar 13:19 For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.

This verse can sway either way, but the the phrase beginning of the creation shows up again and the last verse points out that God made us male and female and if we look at this verse that beginning was from the beginning until now.

When was the beginning though? Well, there only one verse that declares the beginning. Taken in context of the verses that I gave we can see that this period lasted 6 days, everything that dwells in creation was made in those six days, and that Jesus only recognizes the six days as the beginning as the creation of God. That gap must have been awful small.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by kevinvw

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The gap theory can't be supported when you step away from the muddy unclear verses that you can make any interpretation from and look the clear verses that show it to be a farce.

Amen brother! PREACH!

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[chette777]

Gen 2 speaks of the finished 6 day creation we do not disagree with that.
Exodus in speaking of the 6 day creation. we do not disagree with that.
Mark 10 speaks of the 6th day of Creation he made them male and female. we do not disagree with that.

The beginning of 6 day creation was by our view after a great affliction that had taken place as mentioned in Mark 13, so Jesus is correct for the affliction to come will be like nothing ever to have happened since the six days creation. that would indicate the flood of Noah was nothing compared to what is to come or what had preceded the current 6 day creation. There will be stars hitting the earth, planetary shift, increase in solar heat, world wide drought and no wind. Imagine nothing like that has ever taken place since the 6 days of creation ever. But before the six day creation the earth had suffered something devastating and left it covered in waters. So in that sense we agree wit the Lord Jesus not your view of what he is saying.

We agree that there was a six day creation. all that has to do with this present world that is reserve for the fire.

the Lord is not obligated to tell us what happened before. He has only revealed what pertains to the current creation, of which was a result of the 6 day creation and the purposes for this earth and its creatures. And the KJV Bible is clear what that purpose is, the Glory of God.

your argument still does not answer 2 Peter 2:5 nor Job 38:4-7

Please I would prefer, because we already know some of you do not agree with our view, though you have never fully known what our view is. So go argue somewhere else. This is here in part to present a partial view of what we hold when we say "we beleive in a gap". You don't have agree and we respect your view and your right not to agree with ours.

Any helpful comments or rebuttles should be directed to the Authors email address in the above post. He will read all emails but may not respond to all of them.

Remember most of what is taught by young earth advocate is agreed by us. We differ only on the fact that we believe the earth is older than the current 6 day creation, and we believe the sons of God were created before the six day creation.

Again we don't agree with Millions of years old earth Evolutionists, Theistic Evolution, or Progress Creationism, we don't hold any view like those of the Day/Age theory where Day represent longer periods of time. We agree in a six day current creation which we are living in today.

Also we are not in agreement with the Humanistic Intelligent Design Movement which denies a GOD. We do however affirm that God is the Intelligent designer of all the current 6 day Creation has, and before and yet to come.

[Biblestudent]

, Brother Chette!

[kevinvw]

Originally Posted by chette777

Gen 2 speaks of the finished 6 day creation we do not disagree with that.
Exodus in speaking of the 6 day creation. we do not disagree with that.
Mark 10 speaks of the 6th day of Creation he made them male and female. we do not disagree with that.

The beginning of 6 day creation was by our view after a great affliction that had taken place as mentioned in Mark 13, so Jesus is correct for the affliction to come will be like nothing ever to have happened since the six days creation. that would indicate the flood of Noah was nothing compared to what is to come or what had preceded the current 6 day creation. There will be stars hitting the earth, planetary shift, increase in solar heat, world wide drought and no wind. Imagine nothing like that has ever taken place since the 6 days of creation ever. But before the six day creation the earth had suffered something devastating and left it covered in waters. So in that sense we agree wit the Lord Jesus not your view of what he is saying.

We agree that there was a six day creation. all that has to do with this present world that is reserve for the fire.

the Lord is not obligated to tell us what happened before. He has only revealed what pertains to the current creation, of which was a result of the 6 day creation and the purposes for this earth and its creatures. And the KJV Bible is clear what that purpose is, the Glory of God.

your argument still does not answer 2 Peter 2:5 nor Job 38:4-7

Please I would prefer, because we already know some of you do not agree with our view, though you have never fully known what our view is. So go argue somewhere else. This is here in part to present a partial view of what we hold when we say "we beleive in a gap". You don't have agree and we respect your view and your right not to agree with ours.

Any helpful comments or rebuttles should be directed to the Authors email address in the above post. He will read all emails but may not respond to all of them.

Remember most of what is taught by young earth advocate is agreed by us. We differ only on the fact that we believe the earth is older than the current 6 day creation, and we believe the sons of God were created before the six day creation.

Again we don't agree with Millions of years old earth Evolutionists, Theistic Evolution, or Progress Creationism, we don't hold any view like those of the Day/Age theory where Day represent longer periods of time. We agree in a six day current creation which we are living in today.

Also we are not in agreement with the Humanistic Intelligent Design Movement which denies a GOD. We do however affirm that God is the Intelligent designer of all the current 6 day Creation has, and before and yet to come.

2Pe 2:5 And spared not the old world, but saved Noah the eighth person, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood upon the world of the ungodly;

Obviously this is the flood of Gen 7. I think you meant 3:5.

2Pe 3:5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
2Pe 3:6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:

Cross referenced with 2:5, Peter called the world before the flood of Gen 7 the old world, which would make this the same flood.

Job 38:4 Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? declare, if thou hast understanding.
Job 38:5 Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? or who hath stretched the line upon it?
Job 38:6 Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? or who laid the corner stone thereof;
Job 38:7 When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?

This could easily be on the first day. God was about to create the earth but decided He wanted something to see this and glorify Him, so He created these angelic beings.

I know what your view is. I used to believe it until I was shown the obvious that you can't get around which you didn't get. Gen 2:1-3 Exo 20:11 and Mark 10:6 point to the obvious that the six days of creation were the beginning, and that there wasn't anything in creation before then. It says that God rested from ALL of his works and the creation of ALL that dwell in them. That means Satan, angels, cherubs, x, y, z, were ALL created in the six days.

If you're going to post something on a forum, don't expect everybody to let you post something and just pat you on the back for it.

[chette777]

yes you are correct 2Peter 3:5 was the verse I was referring too my mistake. well in Gen 1 the earth is already created. the Angels are already created for they were there and sang for joy.

those are the beginning of the current creation and we agree with that. but it is not referring to the earth in eternity before we find God spirit hovering over a waters covered earth.

God began his work by establishing time that never before was in existence. This is an important thing to understand. it was from this time forth that time is recorded. The Bible is the only book recording the times of men, their ages and length of life.

Work has to do with a 24/7 week Even God worked according to a 24/7 time frame (resting on the seventh day). It is at the time of Gen 1:2 God decided to bring in Time before this there was no time periods. It is interesting to note at the time God separates this current creation from his abode (the third Heaven) he brings time in to the picture. Separating the light and the darkness created the time cycle. later the sun, moon and stars are put in place for times, seasons and signs. between these the firmament was put into place and plants were created. these creation were done according to the 24 hour a day cycle.

Actually when we have all been through this before when one of the other views was posted namely the NO GAP view. there were all sorts of arguments. But the problem was no one understood our view and they kept labeling us Evolutionarians, theistic Evolutionists, or Progressive Evolution which we do not hold or agree too. that is the reason for this post to show our view.

We believe when there was no time God created the heaven and the earth. then something happened. we don't know exactly but the earth is found in a chaotic state covered in waters and the Holy ghost hovering over it. Then God (the Father) begins by calling forth light (not creating it, so this could be the God the Son) and he separated the light from the dark and started a time period system for the current creation which took 6 days. that time system needs to have the Sun and moon created to keep perpetuating the 24 hour day.

The creation of time is very important to keep in mind. for God and Angelic beings (Arch Angels, Angels, Cherubim and Seraphim exists without time. Only this current creation needs time. and it will all end just as it does in Rev 21 with a new Earth created in only moments as we can tell for time will be no more. the heaven and earth in Verse one were created before there was time> Verse tow we have the Spirit of God no time yet verse Gen 1:3 is the introduction of time and it ended as an evening and a morning were teh first day. what was created teh first day was TIME our twenty four hour day. which until this time never existed.

This is one factor the NO GAP guys never cover the creation of time. It seem they assume that time always existed. But it is clear when time was created on day one of this current creation and it could not be carried out for us over the 6000 years without the creation of the Sun, Moon and Stars.

Kevin, Thanks for the input I copied it an emailed to arched.

[kevinvw]

How were the heaven and the earth created in the beginning before there was time though. There can't be a beginning without time. I'm not saying that time has always existed. I am saying though that it doesn't say before time existed the heaven and the earth and the host of them existed with God.

It is clear that the deep is a body of water that separates the second and third heaven, and the face of it is frozen.

Job 38:30 The waters are hid as with a stone, and the face of the deep is frozen.

Rev 4:6 And before the throne there was a sea of glass like unto crystal: and in the midst of the throne, and round about the throne, were four beasts full of eyes before and behind.

Rev 15:2 And I saw as it were a sea of glass mingled with fire: and them that had gotten the victory over the beast, and over his image, and over his mark, and over the number of his name, stand on the sea of glass, having the harps of God.

I think that this sea of glass is the frozen face of the deep. So, it would make sense that the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the deep if the throne of God is there. It doesn't say how the deep was made, but it exists after God created the heaven and the earth, so it was probably created then.

Plus, there is no evidence of a universal flood if 2 Peter 3:5 is a reference to the flood of Noah, which I think that Peter calling the earth before the flood of Noah the old world pretty much destroys it.

I'm still seeing a major lack of support for the gap theory in any of its forms.