[chette777]

I was reviewing all the posts concerning the emergent church. listening intently looking for a thought.

I agree the church is watering down its mission with LOVE the new age theme since the 1960's. but as I looked some of you who don't agree with rick have in your own replies the reason that this movement has come about.

you see the 10 commandments don't belong in the church age (this current dispensation) and niether does the Kingdom laws for the Kigdom yet to come. we are in the church age the age of grace.

All we need in salvation is ours in Christ the moment we BELIEVE in his finished work on the cross. the power to live according to Gods superhuman requirement for us in this age cannot be done in the flesh it must be done by and through the Holy Spirit. the problem with the Charismatics they think the Holy Spirit is to manifest itself in some funny and rediculous way. the Holy Spirit will remain in the back ground working out the victory in your lives without anyone ever seeing it.

All We have ever needed was given to us. but to yolk ourselves back under laws is to put to shame the cross of Christ. you can not finish in the flesh what you started inthe Spirit. you must live each day in the same faith in Christ as you had the first time You believed.

so the Charismatics wanted a spirit that they could feel and touch and they got it. demonic but it is theirs. how about you? you want to place your selves back under laws and rules for your life in Christ and all of you struggle so hard and fail. then you are on your knees confused and crying why Why Why?

it is that double standard of faith alone and then adding works to finish the job.

the struggle we as the conservative church created in following rules and regulations puts everyone back in a system that cannot get them what they need so the Chrismatic movement got something and so many follow after it because they know how hard it is to live the life Christ has called us to live by him in His Spirit.

we need to return to the very foundation of Biblical salvation in all of its completion that is Justification, righteousness, for we were created to do good works in Christ. not to do good works to finish our slavation or any other work that Christ has already completed in His cross.

slavation by faith alone in the finished work of Christ. who on His cross judged all our sins forever. and living in the Holy Ghost, empowered to live the Impossible life we have been asked to live.

just to give a few examples: Moses laws states and eye for an eye, the knigdom law (more strict that moses) is turn the other cheek, Roms 12:18 If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men.

Moses law, love you neighbor as yourself, kingdom law, love your enemy..., under the Age of Grace Love ye on another as I have loved you. all the ten commandments are restated under grace but all meant to be lived under the power of the Holy Ghost. we don't live byt he Ten Commandments for one they were given to the Jews only never a Gentile. and remenber Christ Cross put to deatht he law and left all men condemed under sin.

if we are going to rescue those whom we ourselves have caused to move into such movements as the emerging church . we oursleves need to live in this dispensation by faith alone in Jesus Christs Cross. the works will follow any one who beleives on Christ. but they never come before. Christ is the WAy, the truth and the Life and it is all by faith in his finished work.

lets stop being the problem why these people have left the foundations of faith alone and turned to these demonic things, and start being part of the solution to lead them back to the firm foundation of Christ.

Chette

The ten commandments are part of God's moral law, which is eternal. They apply just as much to us today, as they did to people under the OT. In fact, 9 of them are restated over and over in the NT, especially in the epistles. The one commandment that is not restated is the sabbath - because the NT teaches that was a picture of Christ, and our rest is fulfilled in Christ.

Galatians 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

James 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.

The Law was given to show we were sinners in need of a Saviour - if it was wrong for me to break the commandments before I was saved and therefore was in need of a Saviour - it is still wrong today to break those same commandments.

What the NT teaches is that we are not obligated to fulfill the Law for salvation, and if we are saved, we are not under the curse of the Law. The NT does not teach that none of the Law still applies - yes, there are parts that the NT teaches are done away with (ceremonial laws, the OT priesthood, the sacrifices, the sabbaths and holydays), but it does not teach that the moral law is done away with.

so the Charismatics wanted a spirit that they could feel and touch and they got it. demonic but it is theirs. how about you?

Is nothing sacred on this forum. Is everyone and every church under attack here. I will tell you now that I believe the Holy Ghost was given to the church at Pentecost. I simply must not stay here. I assume this is a Baptist only sight. I really thought there would be more intelligent people here. I might as well go talk to the Atheist. I will be just as edified. Jerry you will be estactic for this is my last post on this forum. Just too much hate and not enough Jesus.

Differing on doctrine is not hatred.

I really thought there would be more intelligent people here.

And what's with insulting people's intelligence that disagree with you? I am certain THAT is not Christlike.

P.S. Intelligence has nothing to do with true spirituality or Biblical wisdom - someone could be greatly intelligent (in the world's eyes) and lack both of these.

[chette777]

When we talk about Grace and Law it is best to be fully understnding what each of us mean. so Jerry thisis for you to reveiw so that you best understand my statements that Grace must stand.

I quote Lewis Sperry Chafer founder of the Dallas Theological Seminary, from his book "He That is spiritual"

There are two aspects of the teachings of grace which are fundamental:
First, they anticipate a manner and quality of life which is superhuman. These standards are none other than "the life which is Christ." In view of the present heavenly position of the redeemed, there could be no less required of them. The Mosaic law, or the law of the kingdom, though complete in themselves as governing principles, and though perfectly fulfilling the mission assigned to them, never aimed at the reproduction of the Christ-life. Their standards, though holy, just and good, are of the earth. In the demands of the law, there is no consideration of the most vital activities which are anticipated under grace -- prayer, a life of faith, and soul-winning service. The teachings of grace are heavenly and are as far removed from the law as heaven is higher than the earth. The teachings of grace, though presenting a much more difficult standard of living than any law, do not anticipate that the believer will attempt them in his own strength. That would plunge him still deeper into the principle of law with its utter and hopeless failures. Christ is to be perfectly manifested under grace. To this end the most minute details of heavenly conduct are given; but never apart from another and equally age-characterizing fact:
Second, the new life which is "inlawed to Christ" is to be lived by the enabling power of the indwelling Spirit. As has been seen, no help was ever provided under the law. Sin had dominion over law-observers and the law condemned them. Under grace it is provided that "sin shall not have dominion over you." "If ye are led by the Spirit, ye are not under the law." This fact that the enablement for daily life is provided in one case and is not provided in the other is the final and most important distinction between law and grace.
Though not under the law as a rule of life, a Spirit-filled Christian is, however, in a position wherein he cannot do the things which he otherwise would (Galatians 5:17). This again is due to the fact that he is "inlawed to Christ." Being in the power and control of the Spirit, he cannot do the things which he otherwise would do because of the transformed desires of a heart which the Spirit has filled. The power of God is working in such a believer, "both to will and to do of his good pleasure." So, also, the Apostle prays for the Hebrews: "Now the God of peace ... make you perfect in every good work to do his will, working in you that which is wellpleasing in his sight, through Jesus Christ" (Hebrews 13:20, 21). The Spirit-filled Christians are the only persons in the world who know the blessings of true liberty. Liberty means perfect freedom to do as one is prompted by his own deepest desires. Apart from the energizing power of the Spirit, this liberty may easily become the occasion for the manifestations of the flesh. "For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only use not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another" (Galatians 5:13). Under grace, the normal Christian is to be Spirit-filled. Thus it is divinely intended and provided that every heart-desire of the child of God shall be prompted by the indwelling Spirit. This is the divine provision for prevailing prayer: "If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you" (John 15:7). Under these definite conditions, the fullest liberty can be granted. It is thus designed that the Spirit-filled Christian is to be free to do in perfect liberty all that his heart prompts him to do; for, when Spirit-filled, he pleases only "to will and to do of his good pleasure." This is "fulfilling the law of Christ." It also fulfills, supersedes, and surpasses all that is contained in any other law. A "carnal" Christian is a violation of all the divine plan and provisions of grace. He is under grace by position only, for he is not yielded to the will and power of God. He is in a state upon which no divine favor can rest, and he is falling short of the marvels of divine grace.
It should never be concluded that the life in grace is circumscribed and narrow. This is the view which is taken by both the "natural man" to whom the things of the Spirit are only "foolishness," and the "carnal" man who "cannot bear" spiritual things. Neither the "natural man" nor the "carnal" man should ever be expected to understand the triumph of the spiritual life in grace. The glory of these divine realities have too long been confuse and distorted by the opinions of such men.
To be "inlawed to Christ" is to enter the door into the things which are infinite. It is like the exit of the grub from the dark confinements of the chrysalis state into the glorious sun-kissed, world-wide, heaven-high freedom of the butterfly. The butterfly needs no law to prohibit him from returning to the former state; but sadly indeed do we discover that there is the presence in us of the flesh which must be kept in all subjection by the power of God. For this victory our God is sufficient.

[chette777]

lively stones

my statement of Demonic spirit would not be wrong in that the manifestations that have occurer in the Vineyard movement and others such a histerical laughter, barking, howling and may movement of the body that woud shame. All of which I have witnessedmy self are not biblical of the filing of the Holy Spirit.

while yet it is true we can't put God in a box the Holy Spirit never draws attention to itself it only Glorifies Christ. those shameless manifestation are not of the Holy Ghost given to all who believe at teh moment they believe. but is a coounterfit given by Satan to keep you in bondage so you cannot be the spiritual person and the likeness of Christ God wants you to be when yielded to the Holy Ghost.

the struggle we as the conservative church created in following rules and regulations puts everyone back in a system that cannot get them what they need so the Charismatic movement got something and so many follow after it because they know how hard it is to live the life Christ has called us to live by him in His Spirit.

you know, i'm pentecostal, and i gotta concur with you. see, i'm an old fashioned pentecostal [not upc cultist], not like these ppl callin themselves pentecostal, or charismatic. i'm convinced the charismatic church movement was created just because heretics booted from the pentecostal church didn't wanna give up their heresy.

Originally Posted by Lively Stone

I will tell you now that I believe the Holy Ghost was given to the church at Pentecost.

I will just add this: that the Holy Spirit is given to all that are in Christ and I believe that the main role of the Holy Spirit is to give us the power to boldly preach/spread the gospel of Jesus Christ.

[chette777]

the main role of the Holy Spirit is to guarantee your redemption (the completion of your salvation) secondly He is the Power by which we live the Christian life, he teaches us the word of God, gives us the ability to share our faith either in power or meekness. he Guides us, leads us, fills us, interceeds for us and much more than we can know.

the book "He that is Spiritual" is a must read for anyone desiring to live a more holy life in a biblical spirit filled way. victory is yours Daily as well as forever.

Originally Posted by chette777

the main role of the Holy Spirit is to guarantee your redemption (the completion of your salvation) secondly He is the Power by which we live the Christian life, he teaches us the word of God, gives us the ability to share our faith either in power or meekness. he Guides us, leads us, fills us, interceeds for us and much more than we can know.

the book "He that is Spiritual" is a must read for anyone desiring to live a more holy life in a biblical spirit filled way. victory is yours Daily as well as forever.

I agree with you on the role of the Holy Spirit. Although, only one that is saved receives the Holy Spirit.

What I should say is that without the Holy Spirit we are not able to powerfully preach the Word of God and spread the gospel of Jesus Christ, which is what our great commission is.

Although it is not either power or meekness. To be meek is to have the power under control. Christ is meek, humble and powerful and of course so much more......