Quote: cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

Does this mean you don't even believe in the tribulation? If that is so, I have no answer for you.

Willie:

You must have misread my post. The question I asked had nothing to do with whether I believe in the Tribulation (I, in fact, believe in two tribulations). It was about who confirmed the covenant with many in Israel. If you enlighten me as to how the Antichrist can be righteous enough to desolate Jerusalem for all their abominations, then we can begin to figure out whether all this is past or future.

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com.

It certainly wasn't Jesus who made that covenant referred to in that verse. Jesus warned Israel against that time.

Daniel 9:24-27 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

The people of the prince to come will destroy Jerusalem and the temple - that is the Roman Empire that destroyed Jerusalem and the temple. Jesus is saying a ruler from that same empire is going to desecrate the endtimes temple - the abomination of desolation, as Jesus called it.

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

Isaiah 28:14-20 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

The "righteousness" of the antichrist will be feigned. So, people will buy into his lie.

...sorry for misreading your post. You believe in 2 tribulations? I'm interested to learn more.

Jerry:

Isaiah 28:14-20 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem. Because ye have said, We have made a covenant with death, and with hell are we at agreement; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, it shall not come unto us: for we have made lies our refuge, and under falsehood have we hid ourselves: Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD, Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious corner stone, a sure foundation: he that believeth shall not make haste. Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place. And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it. From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report. For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

Interpret, please. To what event do you connect this?

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

Willie:

The "righteousness" of the antichrist will be feigned. So, people will buy into his lie.

If he desolates the city, who is going to be around to buy into his lie.?

Willie:

I'll come back later on the two tribulations.

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

Willie:
I believe that there were two tribulations in the time fo Christ 2000 years ago. The first one was relatively mild, and was a time of trial, to prove the faith of all those who professed belief in Christ.

When Christ first came to earth, not everyone received Him. But those who did, to them He gave power to become sons of God. Notice that just by receiving Him, believing in Him, did not make them children of God; He only gave them power to become sons of God. First they would have to endure a time of testing, if they passed, then they would be saved.

Matt. 24:13 “But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.” Some theologians think that this means “they will be physically rescued out of the midst of the future Tribulation,” which doesn’t make sense, because if they are rescued before the tribulation is over, then they don’t “endure to the end.”

Rev. 3:5 gives evidence that this is soul salvation, and not physical rescue:
Rev. 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

They have to overcome the devil: Rev 12:11 “And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.”

This was a time of trial. The bible calls it a tribulation, and also it is called the Baptism of Fire. I don’t know how long it lasted, but it ended just before the time of judgement, the Great Tribulation, the invasion of Jerusalem by Rome, begain.

Matt. 24:29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:”

Immediately after that fist tribulation, the tribulation of testing was over, the tribulation of judgement began.

You can find more about this on my website, www.tribulationhoax.com. And “Baptism of fire.”

Cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

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