[Josh]

God not being the author of confusion is not only refering to Corinth. Babel is not even a relevant issue. They rebelled against God, and He punished them. Just like God will allow those left behind after the Rapture to believe a lie. Don't try to take God's words out of context to prove a hopelessly false point. Espescially not to those of us who believe the Bible.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

LOL, wow Ruckman really hit the nail on the head when he described you perfectly in his first three points. See below, have a look in the mirror my man...

THE CREED OF THE ALEXANDRIAN CULT
by Peter Ruckman

1. "There is NO FINAL AUTHORITY but God."

2. "Since God is a SPIRIT, there is NO FINAL AUTHORITY that can be seen, heard, read, felt or handled."

3. "Since all books are MATERIAL, there is NO BOOK ON THIS EARTH THAT IS THE FINAL AND ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on what is right and what is wrong; what constitutes TRUTH and what constitutes ERROR."

llthomasjr: The strings on your puppet show have been revealed.
You may want to choose your words carefully, I can tell you people who try to spread your snake oil are not tolerated very well on this site. It isn't that we don't like you personally, but your doctrine is usually treated like poop in the swimming pool around here.

Poop in the swimming pool? Somehow I think that is pretty low to say to someone. But.... I have noticed on a lot of boards people can say what they want as long as they are in agreement with the moderators and administration of a site. Ethics keep me from dealing the same way with your comments as you do with mine. If the admin wants me to leave... I will . Till then, don't take it personally if I keep posting.

Ruckman and his advanced revelation must be your final authority?

Originally Posted by Josh

God not being the author of confusion is not only refering to Corinth. Babel is not even a relevant issue. They rebelled against God, and He punished them. Just like God will allow those left behind after the Rapture to believe a lie. Don't try to take God's words out of context to prove a hopelessly false point. Espescially not to those of us who believe the Bible.

Just trying to keep things in context. You take what was said at Corinth too far. To take to mean in every situation. That is what is out of context. I have shown you example where the truth lead to confusion. Whether it was the lost or saints alike.

Quite a discussion going here....on the very topic I am interested in and searching for clarity. Here is a link I came across to the "genius of ambiguity" argument (Van Kleeck), as well as a link to the Strouse article. Strouse makes an excellent case for verse 7 teaching the preservation of Scripture. I really like Strouse. Where can I find more of his teachings?

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/fbns/fbns88.html

http://www.wayoflife.org/fbns/strouse-psalm127.html

Yet Van Kleeck makes a point worthy of consideration.

Shalom,

Tandi

Hi Steve. I did notice that you didn't stay around too long at bible.org. It was sorta a hit and run thing. Now I remember treating your ethically and sincerely. Hope you do the same.

There are lot of things that Wallace says that I do not like but he sure has been a thorn in the side of many a KJVO supporter. I remember reading somewhere here about someone must use a Oxford dictionary.... I thought that was very good point that Wallace began..... Till such, all you ever heard out of the KJVO believers was ....Webster this and Webster that....

I always couldn't quite grasp someone promoting the definitions of a man that produced his own version of the bible... and then these same people calling those who believe different horrible names. I mean if Webster did it and you like his definitions... then why fuss at anyone else?

By the way... Wallace wasn't the exclusive commentator on the OT for the .NET version.

Steve wrote;

Are the poor and the needy (you left them out) "as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times". Is that your understanding of the Biblical teaching ?

Are they preserved "from this generation for ever" unto eternal life with the Lord Jesus Christ ? Are some "preserved" unto damnation and separation from God ? Would that be Biblical preservation ? Is each individual and generation passing away, to be replaced with new individuals and generations.

What God said about the poor is sure. Pure as silver tried in the furnace of the earth. What Jesus said about the poor being with us always is pure and true.

Now, can you allow that the words of God could be purified and preserved from this generation for ever ? Endureth forever. It looks above that you agree that this is true Bible, yet are you adamant that this is not the teaching of Psalm 12 ? Very curious. While you have to do an exegetical flying leap to try to convince someone that God's "preservation" and purification is only the poor (and please don't ferget the needy, they should not be cast aside for the poor) not the words of God.

No need to try to put words in my mouth. I never said it was only to the poor. I said here it is talking about the poor and I'll add needy...so as to not leave them out. I gave scripture that witness that very truth.

Simply because John Gill or Daniel Wallace tells you there is a grammatical gender issue, for that reason you are sure that the word of God is not preserved in Psalm 12 ? Even after looking at the whole verse in context (see page 1 of this thread). Or are you concerned that the King James Bible might have this true and right and that is what a smidgen discomfiting ?

First of all....I never said that God has not preserved His word. Second, just because I believe He has.... doesn't confine me to believe that is only found exclusively in the KJV. Such is not one in the same. I am not concerned at all about being discomforted by the KJV.

Now, you say you believe the word of God is preserved, taught elsewhere in the Bible. What are your favorite verses for teaching your view that the word of God "endureth forever" and "lives forever" ? Please share with us the source of this belief and how you express it from the word of God.

And how do you know the verses you share are themselves pure -- if you do not recognize the pure Bible anywhere in the world today ? Could they be mistranslations or redactions or interpolations or other smasheroos ?

Did I say... taught else where in the bible? Nope... Could you provide the quote where I said it?

The Word of God is not bound to any written form. It is true no matter if they world passes away and all the things therein are burned with a fervant heat. They will and shall endure forever. They are true and they endure forever because the Son of God is alive forever more.

Can you explain how the word of God in the KJV will survive forever? I mean you take all these verses to literally be fulfilled in a text that will burn up in the fire mentioned in 2 Peter chapter 3. Is God going to salvage the KJV from the fire? What about what Jeremiah foretold and the writer of hebrews spoke about in


Heb 8:10 For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
Heb 8:11 And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.

The Word of God will endure forever because it will be written on the hearts and in the minds of the eternal saints of God. Your belief in that preservation talking place only the KJV doesn't stand the test of the scriptures themselves.....

Tell me me how the KJV is going to survive all these things?

[Josh]

Perhaps it is not I who take God's Word too far, but this watered down modern "Christianity" that doesn't take it far enough, or literally enough.

Revelation 3:15-19 - I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked: I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.

Originally Posted by llthomasjr

Ethics keep me from dealing the same way with your comments as you do with mine. If the admin wants me to leave... I will . Till then, don't take it personally if I keep posting.

Well somehow I think my comments may be tolerated more than yours. Why? Because my comments don't seek to destroy the believer's faith in the Bible, yours do.

Originally Posted by llthomasjr

Ruckman and his advanced revelation must be your final authority?

Not at all, actually I'm one of those people who has a real Bible to serve that purpose.

Now I have a feeling my comments about your teaching are 100% correct and true, but let's confirm it. So let me ask you, do you agree with the three statements below?

1. "There is NO FINAL AUTHORITY but God."

2. "Since God is a SPIRIT, there is NO FINAL AUTHORITY that can be seen, heard, read, felt or handled."

3. "Since all books are MATERIAL, there is NO BOOK ON THIS EARTH THAT IS THE FINAL AND ABSOLUTE AUTHORITY on what is right and what is wrong; what constitutes TRUTH and what constitutes ERROR."

Originally Posted by llthomasjr

Can you explain how the word of God in the KJV will survive forever? I mean you take all these verses to literally be fulfilled in a text that will burn up in the fire mentioned in 2 Peter chapter 3. Is God going to salvage the KJV from the fire? ... Tell me me how the KJV is going to survive all these things?

Easy. God is going to PRESERVE IT.
That would be the same God who kept Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego from getting destroyed in a furnace of fire that was made seven times hotter than usual, without so much as the smell of smoke on their clothes. That would be the same God who created you and the Earth and everything that is on it.
Come on now, do you honestly not think the God who inspired it is powerful enough to preserve it?

[Forrest]

Psalms 119:130 The entrance of thy words giveth light; it giveth understanding unto the simple.

Romans 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Matthew 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Easy. God is going to PRESERVE IT.
That would be the same God who kept Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego from getting destroyed in a furnace of fire that was made seven times hotter than usual, without so much as the smell of smoke on their clothes. That would be the same God who created you and the Earth and everything that is on it.
Come on now, do you honestly not think the God who inspired it is powerful enough to preserve it?