[Brother Tim]

Atlas, speak with Grace, Brother, Grace!

[atlas]

Tim,

Atlas, speak with Grace, Brother, Grace!

I do with lost folks, just like Jesus did. I also talk to false teachers just like Jesus did. Would you like scripture for this? If so I'll be more than happy to it to you.


Atlas

[Brother Tim]

Atlas, Jesus could speak as He did for He knew the hearts of the men to whom He spake. You do not have that ability, especially considering the limitations of this format. You go ahead and talk with Eric person-to-person all you want. Scream and yell at him if you think that it will accomplish anything useful. For the sake of weaker brethren and those who are guests, change the tone here.

[atlas]

Tim,

Atlas, Jesus could speak as He did for He knew the hearts of the men to whom He spake. You do not have that ability, especially considering the limitations of this format. You go ahead and talk with Eric person-to-person all you want. Scream and yell at him if you think that it will accomplish anything useful. For the sake of weaker brethren and those who are guests, change the tone here.

Paul and others also did this Tim, would you like some scripture for this also? He did not know the hearts of men did he? I'm not trying to be rude with you brother Tim, but this is true is it not?


Atlas

[Brother Tim]

This is NOT the place, Atlas. You have Eric's number and email. He has provided the way for you to give him yours. Settle it between you. This is not beneficial to others.

[Debau]

Originally Posted by George

SOPHISTRY & CASUISTRY

{Dictionary Definition - Underlines by G.A.}

Aloha to all on the Forum,

If you will – please read the following definitions and see if they don’t apply to certain people who have joined this Forum over the past few months:


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
soph·ist·ry - noun, plural -ries.

1. a subtle, tricky, superficially plausible, but generally fallacious method of reasoning.
2. a false argument; sophism.


American Heritage Dictionary
soph·is·try - n. pl. soph·is·tries

1. Plausible but fallacious argumentation.
2. A plausible but misleading or fallacious argument.

WordNet
sophistry – noun

a deliberately invalid argument displaying ingenuity in reasoning in the hope of deceiving someone [syn: sophism]


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
Sophistry

Soph"ist*ry\, n. [OE. sophistrie, OF. sophisterie.]
1. The art or process of reasoning; logic. [Obs.]
2. The practice of a sophist; fallacious reasoning; reasoning sound in appearance only.


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
cas·u·ist·ry – noun, plural -ries.

1. specious, deceptive, or oversubtle reasoning, esp. in questions of morality; fallacious or dishonest application of general principles; sophistry.

2. the application of general ethical principles to particular cases of conscience or conduct.


American Heritage Dictionary
ca·su·ist·ry
n. pl. ca·su·ist·ries

1. Specious or excessively subtle reasoning intended to rationalize or mislead.
2. The determination of right and wrong in questions of conduct or conscience by analyzing cases that illustrate general ethical rules.

WordNet
casuistry - noun

1. argumentation that is specious or excessively subtle and intended to be misleading
2. moral philosophy based on the application of general ethical principles to resolve moral dilemmas


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
Casuistry

Cas"u*ist*ry\, a. 1. The science or doctrine of dealing with cases of conscience, of resolving questions of right or wrong in conduct, or determining the lawfulness or unlawfulness of what a man may do by rules and principles drawn from the Scriptures, from the laws of society or the church, or from equity and natural reason; the application of general moral rules to particular cases.

The consideration of these nice and puzzling question in the science of ethics has given rise, in modern times, to a particular department of it, distinguished by the title of casuistry. --Stewart.

2. Sophistical, equivocal, or false reasoning or teaching in regard to duties, obligations, and morals.


Our “friend” (I use the word “loosely”) ericwgreene fits the above description perfectly, and that is why I called him a “Sophist”. I try not to use words carelessly or make accusations lightly, BUT, there comes a time to “call a spade a spade” and let the cards fall where they may.

People, like ericw, do not come to this Forum to “edify” or to “learn” – they come to debate and argue (as evidenced by the number of Posts they post per day). Our “friend” ericw has an astounding 14+ posts per day! It is a sad and tragic fact of life that the U.S.A. has become a nation of Sophists (due to the government school system & media), which simply means that practically everyone is their own FINAL AUTHORITY in all matters.

After dealing with Sophists and Casuists for 50 years, I have discovered that there is NO “cure” for Sophistry & Casuistry, and there is NO “changing” a Sophist! You CANNOT win an argument with a Sophist, and unless God intervenes they will remain that way their entire lives.

Once I find out a man (or woman) is a Sophist I cease dealing with them (there is NO PROFIT in endless debate or arguments) and once they find out that I refuse to engage them, they move on seeking their next “victim” to mislead and deceive.

A SOPHIST: {Dictionary Definition}

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
soph·ist - noun

1. often initial capital letter! Greek History.

a. any of a class of professional teachers in ancient Greece who gave instruction in various fields, as in general culture, rhetoric, politics, or disputation.

b. a person belonging to this class at a later period who, while professing to teach skill in reasoning, concerned himself with ingenuity and speciouseffectiveness rather than soundness of argument.

2. a person who reasons adroitly and speciously rather than soundly.

3. a philosopher


American Heritage Dictionary
soph·ist – n.

1. 1. One skilled in elaborate and devious argumentation.
   2. A scholar or thinker.
2. Sophist Any of a group of professional fifth-century B.C. Greek philosophers and teachers who speculated on theology, metaphysics, and the sciences, and who were later characterized by Plato as superficial manipulators of rhetoric and dialectic.
3. 
   [Middle English sophiste, from Latin sophista, from Greek sophistēs, from sophizesthai, to become wise, from sophos, clever.]

Online Etymology Dictionary
sophist

1542, earlier sophister (c.1380), from L. sophista, sophistes, from Gk. sophistes, from sophizesthai "to become wise or learned," from sophos "wise, clever," of unknown origin. Gk. sophistes came to mean "one who gives intellectual instruction for pay," and, contrasted with "philosopher," it became a term of contempt. Ancient sophists were famous for their clever, specious arguments.


WordNet
sophist

1. any of a group of Greek philosophers and teachers in the 5th century BC who speculated on a wide range of subjects

2. someone whose reasoning is subtle and often specious [syn: casuist]

A CASUIST: {Dictionary Definition}

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
cas·u·ist – noun

1. an oversubtle or disingenuous reasoner, esp. in questions of morality.
2. a person who studies and resolves moral problems of judgment or conduct arising in specific situations.


American Heritage Dictionary
ca·su·ist – n.

A person who is expert in or given to casuistry.


Online Etymology Dictionary
casuist
1609, "one who studies and resolves cases of conscience," from Fr. casuiste, from L. casus (see case (1)). Often in a sinister or contemptuous

WordNet
casuist - noun

someone whose reasoning is subtle and often specious


Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary
Casuist

Cas"u*ist\, n. [L. casus fall, case; cf. F. casuiste. See Casual.]

One who is skilled in, or given to, casuistry.


Our "friend" ericw is a Calvinist Philosopher, who will not be "persuaded" of the truth, even if we were to spend the whole of the remaining year trying to show it to him. He will persist with his heresies and false teachings as long as we persist in dealing with him. Remember: We cannot change a Sophist; and we cannot win an argument with a Sophist! They have no interest in the TRUTH, their only interest is to "argue" and "debate"!

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?" [Jeremiah 17:9]

This debacle was addressed a while back by George for "certain people".

Eric, you said your motives were transparent, and you wanted answers. For what end do you want answers if you already have your answer? What is your motive for multiple questions that you already have made a decision for?

Your motives are not transparent. The results here have seemed to uncover your motive though.

[Luke]

Atlas, we love you Brother, as a defender of the word and faith;

Our example is Paul, who discouraged Christians from strife, envy and arguments. 1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ.

We could say this another way. Some people read it as "Follow Paul because he followed Christ" but I prefer to read it "Follow Paul like he follows Christ"

The word "even" in there is the clincher for me. It's often used in the manner we use "like".

God bless,
In Jesus precious name
Luke

[atlas]

Tim,

This is NOT the place, Atlas. You have Eric's number and email. He has provided the way for you to give him yours. Settle it between you. This is not beneficial to others.

I guess you do not want any scripture to back up what I am saying, enough said. I have noticed Paul and others WROTE it for all to see. They never settled these issues in person to person. I'm sure others ( sinners ) even read of this in the Bible. Isn't this true?

Now I'm ready to drop this issue if you are, however you know the Bible on this issue. This is all that matters in the end. You know I can show you in the Bible publicly exposing false teachers. This is why your rebuttals are just asking for peace, grace, or to settle this issue person to person.

Atlas

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by ericwgreene

Why is this so hard to do. This is the POINT OF UNITY of this group. And yet, no one can give me a fact - just one.

Are you sure you know where you are? Backtrack to http://www.av1611.com and you'll see the apologetics available.

As I said in the other thread, someone demanding proof as you are can not be convinced. I don't recall anyone claiming that we can prove to someone that the KJV is God's word without error.

You want proof? Sorry, I don't have any to give you. There. You win. Just like anyone that asks me to "prove" Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead "wins" that argument.

You claim to have once been "KJV-Only" -- that being the case, you should know the arguments and none of us are going to change your mind.

What does exist is a mountain of evidence for the veracity of the KJV and how God has gone about fulfilling his promises of preservation. But only the Holy Spirit is going to convince you of the truth. There is no proof to offer.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Are you sure you know where you are? Backtrack to http://www.av1611.com and you'll see the apologetics available.

As I said in the other thread, someone demanding proof as you are can not be convinced. I don't recall anyone claiming that we can prove to someone that the KJV is God's word without error.

You want proof? Sorry, I don't have any to give you. There. You win. Just like anyone that asks me to "prove" Jesus Christ resurrected from the dead "wins" that argument.

You claim to have once been "KJV-Only" -- that being the case, you should know the arguments and none of us are going to change your mind.

What does exist is a mountain of evidence for the veracity of the KJV and how God has gone about fulfilling his promises of preservation. But only the Holy Spirit is going to convince you of the truth. There is no proof to offer.

Amen brother! And I think Forrests question is really the heart of the matter.

John 10:3-5 (KJV) To him the porter openeth; and the sheep hear his voice: and he calleth his own sheep by name, and leadeth them out. And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice. And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

I hear my Master's voice exclusively in the King James Bible. I have found some of His Word's in other so called 'translations' (the voice of strangers) but they are all none other than the modern day fruits of modern day Hugh Broughtons. Worst of all, most of them are simply dumbed down 'in common language' versions (based on the critical text with all its pollution), similar to what Dr. Edward Harwood produced in 1768.

If Eric was truly interested in an answer to his question, he would actually be looking for the answer...

Peace and Love,
Stephen

EDIT: this is one of my favorite places to send people who actually are looking for answers: http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/Bible...king_james.htm