[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie

How can some of you say you believe in eternal security when if someone disagrees with you, you question their salvation, whether they are submitting to God, they don't know the Bible? The accusations are flying "off the handle".

Mikie, some of us believe what the Bible clearly states. When people like Beloved57 distort a few verses, completely disregard others to the point of outright denying what the Bible teaches, it's a dangerous thing and needs to be refuted.

Beloved57 has shown arrogance and contempt for people here who believe the Bible. He is attempting to teach false doctrine. We showed where he is wrong, he ignores the scriptures, and now I believe he is not worth dealing with.

What's your point in this? That as someone who believes in insecurity you never question anyone else no matter how far off base they are? What does this have to do with eternal security at all? Tell me, how could I have addressed Beloved57's false teaching and arrogance without appearing contentious to you? Or should we just let him believe and spread whatever he wants without saying a word? What really is your point here, surely you're not making some kind of accusation?

Jeff, your 2nd paragraph is good advice. Predestination is next to impossible to prove Biblically (I say next to impossible because some verses can be taken out of context). So, I will take your advice and not deal with it.

Originally Posted by Jeff

Mikie, some of us believe what the Bible clearly states. When people like Beloved57 distort a few verses, completely disregard others to the point of outright denying what the Bible teaches, it's a dangerous thing and needs to be refuted.

Beloved57 has shown arrogance and contempt for people here who believe the Bible. He is attempting to teach false doctrine. We showed where he is wrong, he ignores the scriptures, and now I believe he is not worth dealing with.

What's your point in this? That as someone who believes in insecurity you never question anyone else no matter how far off base they are? What does this have to do with eternal security at all? Tell me, how could I have addressed Beloved57's false teaching and arrogance without appearing contentious to you? Or should we just let him believe and spread whatever he wants without saying a word? What really is your point here, surely you're not making some kind of accusation?

I have merely delivered the truth and you despise it, because you have not been born of God. He that hath been born of God heareth Gods words..

Originally Posted by Revangelist

Jeff, your 2nd paragraph is good advice. Predestination is next to impossible to prove Biblically (I say next to impossible because some verses can be taken out of context). So, I will take your advice and not deal with it.

predestination is taugt in the holy scriptures, but onnly those who have Gods spirit submitt to its teaching..

rom 8

29For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

30Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

eph 1:

5Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,[ not mans freewill]


11In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:

Predestination is according the Eternal Mind of God, not subject to time..


You call yourself a believer in God and despise and reject this gospel truth ?

Originally Posted by Pastor Mikie

How can some of you say you believe in eternal security when if someone disagrees with you, you question their salvation, whether they are submitting to God, they don't know the Bible? The accusations are flying "off the handle".

Answers to your questions;

Q) How can some of you say you believe in eternal security......

A) Easy....I believe in eternal security because that is what the Bible teaches.

Q)...when if someone disagrees with you, you question their salvation...

A) The Bible is a book of absolutes, there is no scope for more than one doctrine being correct. These people are not disageeing with me or another man, but the author of the Book.

Q) you question their salvation...

A) As stated, I believe that salvation is an eternal position, if you have it in the first place. The only ones questioning anyones salvation are the proponents of the loss of salvation doctrine, which by default would be them questioning their own secure position. ( Or at least being in fear of losing it)

Q) whether they are submitting to God...

A) How else would you describe a person who thinks that being "stuck" with salvation is an infringement on his own fee will?

Q) they don't know the Bible?....

A) Because they dont. Knowing your Bible is more than being able to take a few verses and make them fit to a preconcieved doctrinal position.

Q) The accusations are flying "off the handle

A) Oh please.!.. as soon as people react to your/ their doctrinal flag waving in what you see to be a negative light, its straight into "victim" mode and everyone is a nasty bully.

fundy

You say it's a Biblical Doctrine. So far the proof offered isn't very convincing. You can say that about what I say as well. You say, "...that's what the Bible teaches". I say what I believe what the Bible teaches. So, again, my complaint is, anyone who disagrees with your interpretation is somehow a heretic. That makes it hard for a civil discussion. Oh well.

I don't believe the doctrine of eternal security. I also don't believe your take on my position. So far nothing has been said to change my mind. You are certainly welcome to keep trying. Be assured I study the same Bible you do. I believe the same Holy Ghost guides me. But neither one of us "knows it all".

I don't believe the doctrine of eternal security.

Thats because you dont believe in Jesus..

jn 14:

1Let not your heart be troubled: ye believe in God, believe also in me.

2In my Father's house are many mansions: if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.
Jesus should have said you might be where I am..

according to your philosophy [ thats all it is] Jesus may prepare to many ot to less houses...


Jn 10:

28And I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand.


Oh sweet words never perish never perish, how secure how secure, never perish..

[scott]

Originally Posted by beloved57

The bible no where talks about getting saved..A person is saved by Gods electing grace and christ redemptive love..its a gift to a chosen people...just cant go get saved..

Ro 10:12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
Ro 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
Ro 10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Ro 10:15 And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
Ro 10:16 But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Beloved 57, I've read several of your posts [you have been busy], and I'm having a hard time trying to figure out what your real purpose is. How do we as Christians apply what you [and some others] believe?? What are your responsibilities as a believer??
According to your "doctrine", what is the meaning of these Scriptures given above?? What is the purpose of the preacher if they can't make a decision on their own??

When Jesus told us to go forth and preach the Gospel, what would be the use if a person can't make a decision??

Pr 11:30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life; and he that winneth souls is wise.

I know Christ does the winning of souls, but what is the meaning of all the Scriptures which describe our responsibilities as believers?? Someone who believes what you do could feel no obligations to the lost, and could feel happy about doing nothing....I am not being bitter, I'm just puzzled....God bless

The gospel reveals to the elect their salvation..

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by beloved57

The gospel reveals to the elect their salvation..

Ephesians 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,
Ephesians 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ: