Just some thoughts on Revelation 20 -22 - Page 6

chette777 · 03-06-2009, 06:36 PM

that would depend on if you die during the Tribulation for the testimony of Jesus Christ.

if you are raptured alive that is not a resurrection. for you never died. Only Physically dead people are ever resurrected in every Biblical instance.

Now there is a resurrection of the saints who are dead in Christ at his gathering of the saints in the clouds that happen at the same time as our rapture. bu they are not resurrected in their same earthly bodies they are instantly transformed as they arise to heaven.

All those in Rev 20 are resurrected in their same body. No one is given a new bodies or eternal bodies only restored bodies, that is to the state they were in when they died.

Kiwi Christian · 03-06-2009, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777

if you are raptured alive that is not a resurrection. for you never died. Only Physically dead people are ever resurrected in every Biblical instance.

I believe that the rapture of the church IS a resurrection! Whether it be the "dead in Christ" whose bodies come out of the ground, or "we which are alive and remain" whose bodies are translated in the twinkling of an eye. It's not necessary that only physically dead people are ever resurrected, especially considering what our Saviour said in the following passage:

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If you are "in Christ" then you will be resurrected, whether you die physically or not.

03-06-2009, 07:50 PM

Matt, come over and say hello to our newest member from New Zealand...
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread....6381#post16381

chette777 · 11:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiwi Christian

I believe that the rapture of the church IS a resurrection! . . . It's not necessary that only physically dead people are ever resurrected,

John 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: 26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?

If you are "in Christ" then you will be resurrected, whether you die physically or not.

Well Kiwi you will have to take that up with God word. for over 40 verses disagree with your view. and those are just in the New Testament. No matter what you think you are wrong.

But directly opposing your teaching is that of Paul who was inspired to speak these words.

1Thess 4:16, 17 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

the dead shall rise is a resurrection and we who are alive shall be caught up. two simultaneous events, one is a resurrection and the other a catching away together make one event the gathering.

Sorry you are very very very wrong. and Gods word says so.

you better take time to study out what a resurrection is. and living people never in the Bible anywhere were ever resurrected. you want it to be true because you follow the teaching of men that the church is part of the first resurrection in Rev 20, not God's word the KJV Bible. but it goes against all that the BIBLE SAYS.

just as you want the church to be the Bride of Rev 21. sorry study it out we are not. we are HIS BODY and a Person can't marry themself. Wake UP and check those doctrines against God's word. Men's tradition are not to be the basis of Doctrine only God's word can be the basis of sound doctrine. and if they don't line up (and I showed earlier in this post they do not) then they have to be thrown out with other traditions brought down through the reformation

Kiwi Christian · 03-07-2009, 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777

Well Kiwi you will have to take that up with God word. for over...

No matter what you think you are wrong...

Sorry you are very very very wrong. and Gods word says so...

you want it to be true because you follow the teaching of men...not God's word the KJV Bible. but it goes against all that the BIBLE SAYS...

Wake UP and check those doctrines against God's word..

Frankly, I'm taken back by your lack of grace, and this is very telling. Are you my brother? You tell me to Wake UP? Is that how you talk to your brethren in the Philippines? You are a disgrace to your position in the Lord, speaking to me that way.

It doesn't surprise me that your rebuttal to my previous post (which wasn't as much of a rebuttal as a rebuke) did not make any attempt whatsoever to address John 11:25-26.

chette777 · 03:21 AM

of was obvious that those who died believing in him would never die but would be resurrected in the last day. the point being the dead are resurrected not the living.and John11 doesn't support your erroneous teaching that Live people are resurrected so no need to comment on it

there was no lack of grace as you claim your just being thinned skinned. You are wrong in saying that the living who are raptured is a resurrection when scripture clearly teaches only dead people can be resurrected.

and like most who cannot reason with the truth of God's word you resort to wining, slander and speaking evil of dignitaries

chette777 · 03-07-2009, 03:20 AM

I will tell you what Kiwi, if you can find me one verse where a PHYSICALLY LIVING PERSON is raptured in the KJV bible I will take it all back. PUBLICLY

stephanos · 03-07-2009, 05:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chette777

I will tell you what Kiwi, if you can find me one verse where a PHYSICALLY LIVING PERSON is raptured in the KJV bible I will take it all back. PUBLICLY

Doesn't 1Thessalonians 4:16-17 deal with the rapture of PHYSICALLY LIVING PERSONs (No need to shout Chette)?

Anywho, I thought about this and can understand how Revelation 20:6 is referring to the end of Jacob's Trouble resurrection. The reason why I come to this conclusion is that there was a resurrection in Matthew 27:53 KJV, but this isn't "the" first resurrection. I'd forgotten that the "two" resurrections which dispensationalists generally speak of are the one at the end of the Tribulation and the one at the end of the Millenium.

That being said, I don't think it's unfair to say that the rapture is a resurrection. People coming to life from the grave in ANYONES book is a resurrection, whether or not they come out in the same body they went in with. Those that are alive during this event are generally referred to as being "translated" (Hebrews 11:5) by those I've discussed this event with in the past.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

chette777 · 03-07-2009, 05:39 AM

I wasn't shouting I was emphasizing.

Thanks Stephanos I put the wrong word in there it is to be resurrected not raptured. I will restate the challenge in the next post

the Word of God confirms that only dead people are resurrected. and gathering at the time of a resurrection does not make the living gathered a resurrection or part of one. they are along side an event of resurrection not Part of the resurrection. which then would mean the doctrine that the church is part of the first resurrection needs to be reaccessed in light of Scripture.

Kiwi said, the living at the gathering were part of the resurrection. which totally goes against any Biblical revelation on any resurrection at any time past or future. you see it is all an attempt to make us part of the Rev 20 first resurrection.

chette777 · 03-07-2009, 05:41 AM

correction.

I will tell you what Kiwi, if you can find me one verse where a physically living person is RESURRECTED in the KJV bible I will take it all back. PUBLICLY

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