[pbiwolski]

Gophgetter,

Allow me to re-post this question that you never answered on another thread.

Are you saved, right now? Can you give us a day/time when you were born spiritually, or is your salvation an ongoing thing?

I am not implying that you are not saved, but I am interested in your replies.

I'm guessing by now that I'm not the only one interested in you reply.

[chette777]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Brandon, this statement is doesn't help anyone. Instead of telling us that, in essence, we're wrong and need to think like you, you should show us how 2 Peter 2:1 isn't for us. Is this so difficult? At least this gives us a chance to state why we believe as we do.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

maybe I can help shed a liitle light here. ok let me first and please just follow along even if at this moment you are not wanting to rightly divide. and I will divide only the New Testament. and it wont be exhaustive but should give you a basic understanding of how to see applications from one Age or division to another.

1) Q: Ok when you look at the Gospels who is physically teaching?
A: John the Baptist, Jesus, the Apostles, the 70 disciples.

2) Q: what Gospel are they preaching?
A: the Gospel of the kingdom, repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. the same in Acts 2.
Here the gospel is accompanied by works. if they have faith in the mesage they were to be baptized for the remission of sins this would place them as subject ready to enter the earthly Kingdom which is being preached and at hand.

3) Q: Ok in the Books from Romans to Philemon who is teaching?
A: Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles.

4) Q: What Gospel is he Preaching?
A: For by grace are you saved through Faith and this not of yourselves it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. here the Gospel of Salvation into a spiritual kingdom and it is purely by faith no works of baptism or keeping the law is needed as in the Old Testament.

5) Q: in the books Hebrews to Revelation who is teaching?
A: The Apostles, 144,000 male virgin Jews, 2 witnesses.

6) what Gospel is being preached? the kngdom Gospel is again being preached. here they are required to endure to the end (as in Matthew 24, 25 in speaking of the Tribulation period), they must not take the mark. and they are saved to enter the Kingdom. Revelation 21tells us that those martyred for the word and Jesus were resurrected and brought into the Kingdom. their bodies are restored to former state not glorified bodies.

7) Q: Revelation 14 who is teaching?
A: An Angel standing in the sun.

8) Q: What Gospel in proclaimed
A: the Everlasting Gospel

Now we can see clearly from the answers to these questions and a simple reading of the NT that there are six basic division to the NT. the Preparation for the Kingdom Age Matt-Acts 8 (roughly), the Church Age Acts 12-Philemon, the Tribulation Hebrews-Revelation 20, the Millenial Earthy Kingdom Rev 21, and the Eternal Kingdom Rev 22.

fisrt let me say, 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so we see that Scriptures have a four part or divisional use. you will need to divide to know which scripture is for doctrine, or which for reproof, which is for correction and which is for instruction in righteousness.

now how do we determine a doctrine for today? look at the Divisions and you will need to compare. lets take one doctrine in order to get an idea of how this works.

The Gospel.

How do we determine which Gospel is for today?

first stepis to determine which division of time you are in. we are currently in the church age our primary teacher is Paul the apostle to the Gentiles of which we are Gentiles.

now compare Pauls Gospel with that of the pre-cross Gospel of John the baptist. Are they the same? No of course not. Pauls says by grace through faith alone. John says be baptized for th remission of sins. Peter later teaches this same Gospel in Acts 2.

So the General rule is if it doesn't agree with Pauls teaching it is not to be classified as a Doctrine for today.

now lets look a 2 Peter 2:1.

What Age is it in? The tribultaion period according to the divisions we could see above.

Who is teaching? Peter. so it is not the apostle to the Gentiles. But the Apostle to Israel or the Jews. His ministry was always to those of the circumcision Jews and Jewish proslytes.

the verse in question 2Peter 2:1, 2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
now this verse is in agreement with Paul teaching on the subject of false teachers. especially in 2Timothy Chapter 2:14 through 3:9 and others. but the point is there willbe false teachers who bring in daminable teachings that other will follow and speak evil of truth.

ok here we have agreement. it is a teaching but not necessarily a doctrine. this would fall under reproof, correction or an instruction.

However this is not the issue of this post the issue of this post is the Loss of Salvation this would apply tothe post who first taught eternal salvation. of which Gophgetter said was a damniable heresy being taught today. I would say he is speaking evil of the ways of truth (see 2Peter2:2 last part of the verse).

can we look to Salvation.

What did Jesus Teach?
John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. We see here everlasting means never ending
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. see Eph 1:13 for the sealing.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jesus clearly taught that beleif on him would result in everlasting life or eternal salvation.

What di Paul teach?
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. One of Paul's first messages taught everlasting life inthe belief on Christ.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. here Paul is teaching that you are free from the Eternal penelty of sin and are now servants of God with fruit unto holiness and in the end eternal life for thiose who were made free by believing on Christ.
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul teaches eternal life through Jesus Christ
Ephesians 2:6-9 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Our New life is to be shown through the Ages to come that is right through the tribulation into Eternity. and God who cnnot lie says he will do this and he will not change his mind on this issue. we are eternally set. Paul clearly taught etrenal life or salvation in Christ Jesus.

and even though the Author is unclear even though some say it is Paul, God taught in Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Jesus was made perfect in his obedience unto death and was risen from the dead that all those who believe shall have eternal salvation or eternal life in him in heaven. because God has so ordained he should be the Author of Eternal Salvation.

We here have thre divisions agreeing on this issue of Eternal Salvation. so Eternal Life or Salvation is a doctrine for today. Eternal Salvation is just that eternal once an eternal decree is set it cannot be changed. even if you sin it wont change a thing because it is an Eternal God who has set you into eternal life and salvation.

simple division can help you see truths clearly

Stephen, according to your statement I quoted. You are not a KJV beleiver because you don't beleive what it clearly teaches as shown above. you are revealing yourself more and more to be in error on many issues. But we also know the reason now don't we? It is because you took ofense to someone statements about Rightly Dividing scriptures when they corrected you because of a false beleif. and you carry that bitterness with you until this day and everytime someone reproofs or corrects you by right division you become antagonistic towards them. but learing to obey Gods word of 2Tim2:15 will be the turning point of your spirituality and will give you greater understanding of th word of God and help you to grow more in grace and be solid in clearly taught doctrine and apllications.

Learn Eph 4:17-32 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: hat ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you

Romans 12:1, 2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. you are conformed to wordly standards of music as states in your musical instrument posts, you are not allowing your mind to be renewed by God for his will by obeying his clear word on rightly dividing. and here you state you don't beleive what the KJV Bible clearly states on Eternal Salvation.

You are still conforrmed to this wolr din listening to other men and women rather that obeying God. Forget what sister Tracy taught. you get to the word and study as God prescribes you to in 2Timothy2:15 and you will know more than she ever did. and simply beleive Gods clear word on any issue dispite what false teachers or posters are saying.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by chette777

5) Q: in the books Hebrews to Revelation who is teaching?
A: The Apostles, 144,000 male virgin Jews, 2 witnesses.

Now we can see clearly from the answers to these questions and a simple reading of the NT that there are six basic division to the NT. the Preparation for the Kingdom Age Matt-Acts 8 (roughly), the Church Age Acts 12-Philemon, the Tribulation Hebrews-Revelation 20, the Millenial Earthy Kingdom Rev 21, and the Eternal Kingdom Rev 22.

fisrt let me say, 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so we see that Scriptures have a four part or divisional use. you will need to divide to know which scripture is for doctrine, or which for reproof, which is for correction and which is for instruction in righteousness.

now how do we determine a doctrine for today? look at the Divisions and you will need to compare. lets take one doctrine in order to get an idea of how this works.

The Gospel.

How do we determine which Gospel is for today?

first stepis to determine which division of time you are in. we are currently in the church age our primary teacher is Paul the apostle to the Gentiles of which we are Gentiles.

now compare Pauls Gospel with that of the pre-cross Gospel of John the baptist. Are they the same? No of course not. Pauls says by grace through faith alone. John says be baptized for th remission of sins. Peter later teaches this same Gospel in Acts 2.

So the General rule is if it doesn't agree with Pauls teaching it is not to be classified as a Doctrine for today.

now lets look a 2 Peter 2:1.

What Age is it in? The tribultaion period according to the divisions we could see above.

Who is teaching? Peter. so it is not the apostle to the Gentiles. But the Apostle to Israel or the Jews. His ministry was always to those of the circumcision Jews and Jewish proslytes.

the verse in question 2Peter 2:1, 2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
now this verse is in agreement with Paul teaching on the subject of false teachers. especially in 2Timothy Chapter 2:14 through 3:9 and others. but the point is there willbe false teachers who bring in daminable teachings that other will follow and speak evil of truth.

ok here we have agreement. it is a teaching but not necessarily a doctrine. this would fall under reproof, correction or an instruction.

I just don't see in Scripture where the writers of Hebrews through Revelation are speaking to anyone other than those who are followers of Jesus Christ, whether Hebrew/Gentile I make no distinction. Paul's teachings make it clear that once a Jew or a Gentile put their faith in Jesus Christ they are all one. Also where do you get that these books were written by 144000 male virgin jews, and the two witnessess? You see, you think I'm against right division, but you presume to much. The issue is that your method of division (in your eyes) is the ONLY one that is right. You show a lot of pride as well when you speak in regards to your understanding which rubs me the wrong way. You need to get over yourself and learn humility. You also need to quit stretching things when you read the Scriptures. You get a hint that something may be different than other parts of Scripture then you stretch it to fit into this precast mold of how the Scriptures ought to work (again in your eyes). I wish you would stop. Perhaps if you ditched your tone and presumptions about things, then maybe we could meet and have a discussion, but we can't Chette. You have already made up your mind and will not even consider that you could be wrong. I can say in all honesty that I have been willing to look at things as if I could be wrong, and have learned a great deal in regards to what you would call right division. But I do not agree with everything you say. If you (again) can ditch this puffed up attitude and be willing to accept that not everyone is going to agree with you, and more importantly that because they don't agree with you, doesn't make them wrong, then and ONLY then can we meet and discuss things.

for Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[peopleoftheway]

I don't see a puffed up attitude from Chette at all, I see a man that is using scripture correctly to try and show another brother the Light of Truth. Neither can I see any pride in his posts because he is simply trying to reach out to you in regards to what music you yield yourself to. As far as I have read he has gone to great lengths to show you that reggae music just isn't Godly music, I lived and breathed trance music but I just knew I had to leave that behind when I came to the LORD. I was in exactly, and I mean EXACTLY the same position as yourself I didn't want anyone telling me that my music wasn't godly and I fought with my own flesh over the issue and do you know what brother ? It was MY PRIDE that kept me from seeing the truth.
Its your choice, only you will stand before Christ and give account of what you have done in the flesh

In my Saviour's name The LORD Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Diligent

That was good advice. You should listen to it. Instead of telling people Christ isn't powerful enough to save them "for good" without their "help," you should be studying your Bible to figure out these "contradictions" aren't actually contradictions but simply verses that need to be divided.

Greetings Brandon,

It's bad enough when the members of the group twist my statements to say something that I never did say, but when the forum administrator does it, it is a little disconcerting. Show me one place where I said that Christ isn't powerful enough to save them "for good" withour their "help".

Peace

Originally Posted by pbiwolski

Gophgetter,

Allow me to re-post this question that you never answered on another thread.

Are you saved, right now? Can you give us a day/time when you were born spiritually, or is your salvation an ongoing thing?

I am not implying that you are not saved, but I am interested in your replies.

I'm guessing by now that I'm not the only one interested in you reply.

Greetings PB,

You're right. I did not answer your question and I apologize for that. No disrespect intended. I will answer your question on the thread it was asked.

Peace

Originally Posted by chette777

maybe I can help shed a liitle light here. ok let me first and please just follow along even if at this moment you are not wanting to rightly divide. and I will divide only the New Testament. and it wont be exhaustive but should give you a basic understanding of how to see applications from one Age or division to another.

1) Q: Ok when you look at the Gospels who is physically teaching?
A: John the Baptist, Jesus, the Apostles, the 70 disciples.

2) Q: what Gospel are they preaching?
A: the Gospel of the kingdom, repent and be baptized for the remission of sins. the same in Acts 2.
Here the gospel is accompanied by works. if they have faith in the mesage they were to be baptized for the remission of sins this would place them as subject ready to enter the earthly Kingdom which is being preached and at hand.

3) Q: Ok in the Books from Romans to Philemon who is teaching?
A: Paul, Apostle to the Gentiles.

4) Q: What Gospel is he Preaching?
A: For by grace are you saved through Faith and this not of yourselves it is a gift of God, not of works lest any man should boast. here the Gospel of Salvation into a spiritual kingdom and it is purely by faith no works of baptism or keeping the law is needed as in the Old Testament.

5) Q: in the books Hebrews to Revelation who is teaching?
A: The Apostles, 144,000 male virgin Jews, 2 witnesses.

6) what Gospel is being preached? the kngdom Gospel is again being preached. here they are required to endure to the end (as in Matthew 24, 25 in speaking of the Tribulation period), they must not take the mark. and they are saved to enter the Kingdom. Revelation 21tells us that those martyred for the word and Jesus were resurrected and brought into the Kingdom. their bodies are restored to former state not glorified bodies.

7) Q: Revelation 14 who is teaching?
A: An Angel standing in the sun.

8) Q: What Gospel in proclaimed
A: the Everlasting Gospel

Now we can see clearly from the answers to these questions and a simple reading of the NT that there are six basic division to the NT. the Preparation for the Kingdom Age Matt-Acts 8 (roughly), the Church Age Acts 12-Philemon, the Tribulation Hebrews-Revelation 20, the Millenial Earthy Kingdom Rev 21, and the Eternal Kingdom Rev 22.

fisrt let me say, 2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: so we see that Scriptures have a four part or divisional use. you will need to divide to know which scripture is for doctrine, or which for reproof, which is for correction and which is for instruction in righteousness.

now how do we determine a doctrine for today? look at the Divisions and you will need to compare. lets take one doctrine in order to get an idea of how this works.

The Gospel.

How do we determine which Gospel is for today?

first stepis to determine which division of time you are in. we are currently in the church age our primary teacher is Paul the apostle to the Gentiles of which we are Gentiles.

now compare Pauls Gospel with that of the pre-cross Gospel of John the baptist. Are they the same? No of course not. Pauls says by grace through faith alone. John says be baptized for th remission of sins. Peter later teaches this same Gospel in Acts 2.

So the General rule is if it doesn't agree with Pauls teaching it is not to be classified as a Doctrine for today.

now lets look a 2 Peter 2:1.

What Age is it in? The tribultaion period according to the divisions we could see above.

Who is teaching? Peter. so it is not the apostle to the Gentiles. But the Apostle to Israel or the Jews. His ministry was always to those of the circumcision Jews and Jewish proslytes.

the verse in question 2Peter 2:1, 2 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction. And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.
now this verse is in agreement with Paul teaching on the subject of false teachers. especially in 2Timothy Chapter 2:14 through 3:9 and others. but the point is there willbe false teachers who bring in daminable teachings that other will follow and speak evil of truth.

ok here we have agreement. it is a teaching but not necessarily a doctrine. this would fall under reproof, correction or an instruction.

However this is not the issue of this post the issue of this post is the Loss of Salvation this would apply tothe post who first taught eternal salvation. of which Gophgetter said was a damniable heresy being taught today. I would say he is speaking evil of the ways of truth (see 2Peter2:2 last part of the verse).

can we look to Salvation.

What did Jesus Teach?
John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him." John 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. We see here everlasting means never ending
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed. see Eph 1:13 for the sealing.
John 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jesus clearly taught that beleif on him would result in everlasting life or eternal salvation.

What di Paul teach?
Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles. One of Paul's first messages taught everlasting life inthe belief on Christ.
Romans 6:22 But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. here Paul is teaching that you are free from the Eternal penelty of sin and are now servants of God with fruit unto holiness and in the end eternal life for thiose who were made free by believing on Christ.
Romans 5:21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord. Paul teaches eternal life through Jesus Christ
Ephesians 2:6-9 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. Our New life is to be shown through the Ages to come that is right through the tribulation into Eternity. and God who cnnot lie says he will do this and he will not change his mind on this issue. we are eternally set. Paul clearly taught etrenal life or salvation in Christ Jesus.

and even though the Author is unclear even though some say it is Paul, God taught in Hebrews 5:9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him; Jesus was made perfect in his obedience unto death and was risen from the dead that all those who believe shall have eternal salvation or eternal life in him in heaven. because God has so ordained he should be the Author of Eternal Salvation.

We here have thre divisions agreeing on this issue of Eternal Salvation. so Eternal Life or Salvation is a doctrine for today. Eternal Salvation is just that eternal once an eternal decree is set it cannot be changed. even if you sin it wont change a thing because it is an Eternal God who has set you into eternal life and salvation.

simple division can help you see truths clearly

Stephen, according to your statement I quoted. You are not a KJV beleiver because you don't beleive what it clearly teaches as shown above. you are revealing yourself more and more to be in error on many issues. But we also know the reason now don't we? It is because you took ofense to someone statements about Rightly Dividing scriptures when they corrected you because of a false beleif. and you carry that bitterness with you until this day and everytime someone reproofs or corrects you by right division you become antagonistic towards them. but learing to obey Gods word of 2Tim2:15 will be the turning point of your spirituality and will give you greater understanding of th word of God and help you to grow more in grace and be solid in clearly taught doctrine and apllications.

Learn Eph 4:17-32 This I say therefore, and testify in the Lord, that ye henceforth walk not as other Gentiles walk, in the vanity of their mind, Having the understanding darkened, being alienated from the life of God through the ignorance that is in them, because of the blindness of their heart: Who being past feeling have given themselves over unto lasciviousness, to work all uncleanness with greediness. But ye have not so learned Christ; If so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: hat ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: and be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you

Romans 12:1, 2 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service. And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God. you are conformed to wordly standards of music as states in your musical instrument posts, you are not allowing your mind to be renewed by God for his will by obeying his clear word on rightly dividing. and here you state you don't beleive what the KJV Bible clearly states on Eternal Salvation.

You are still conforrmed to this wolr din listening to other men and women rather that obeying God. Forget what sister Tracy taught. you get to the word and study as God prescribes you to in 2Timothy2:15 and you will know more than she ever did. and simply beleive Gods clear word on any issue dispite what false teachers or posters are saying.

"now lets look a 2 Peter 2:1.

What Age is it in? The tribultaion period according to the divisions we could see above.

Who is teaching? Peter. so it is not the apostle to the Gentiles. But the Apostle to Israel or the Jews. His ministry was always to those of the circumcision Jews and Jewish proslytes."

Greetings Brandon,

These statements that you are making are not supported by the scriptures. First, let's look at the time period that is being addressed.

2 Peter 1:3 According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue:

1:4 Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

You'll notice that Peter is including himself in this statement of the promises that are given.

2 Peter 1:12 Wherefore I will not be negligent to put you always in remembrance of these things, though ye know them, and be established in the present truth.

Why would Peter us the words "present" and "be established" if he was talking about some future group of believers in the tribulation. Doesn't compute. The next three verses prove that he is writing to people that were alive while he himself was living.

2 Peter 1:13 Yea, I think it meet, as long as I am in this tabernacle, to stir you up by putting you in remembrance;

1:14 Knowing that shortly I must put off this my tabernacle, even as our Lord Jesus Christ hath shewed me.

1:15 Moreover I will endeavour that ye may be able after my decease to have these things always in remembrance.

How you can say that this is written to people in the tribulation period is beyond me. Now let's look at who Peter is writing to. You say it's to the Jews. You also said that Peter's ministry was always to the circumcision. Have you not read the 10th chapter of Acts where Peter opened the gospel to the Gentiles. What about Peters first epistle? Was it written to the Jews or the Gentiles? Let's take a look.

1 Peter 1:1 Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

The Jews were not referred to as strangers but the Gentiles were. Look at Ephesians 2.

Eph. 2:11 Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands;

2:12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:


2:19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God;

If 1st Peter is written to the Gentiles, then 2 Peter is also. Look at the following verse from 2 Peter 3:1.

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:

Why would Peter use the term "second" epistle if one was written to the Gentiles and one to the Jews. Like I said brother, doesn't compute.

Peace

Sorry for calling you Renee. Got my posts mixed up.

[chette777]

hem talaga

[chette777]

Brandon did't write the Post you quoted Gophgetter I did and I am not him.

Yeah he was speaking to People who were alive at that time. Jewish people Peter beleived of the immenant return of Christ which would be proceeded by the TRIBULATION. It wont compute to you cause you don't rightly divided.

I never said his ministry was ONLY to the Jews I said always to the Jews. Peter was to confirm that The Gospel was meant for all men including Gentiles that is the whole point if Acts 10 and his testimony in Acts 11. but you never again see Peter ministring to The Gentiles in the church Age. By Acts 13 Peter is no where to be found. after this you never Read of peter anywhere doing ministry to the Gentiles nor is he in Rome.

the Jews were given the exceeding great and precious promises The us meaning they the Jews and Gentile converts that beleived Jesus would return and establish the Kingdom. At acts 2 the body is being built (even though you don't see it), so they were given the divine nature which is the Holy Spirit presently and completed in a future time. the only promises this age gets is Eternal Life in Christ by faith alone and you can't lose it, a new body and rewards. the promisses to Israel were teh great and preceious promises of a King who would rule in rigteousness over all the world and that with a rod of Iron.

but the Gentiles weren't scattered in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, that always was their lands, the Jews however were scattered in those lands as Peter adresses them and they are not appointed to return until the last days and in that sense they are strangers in the land they dwelt. You may have taken a cew from Ruckman on that one. I love that guy but sometimes he is wrong.

If you try to make the scattering the tower of Babel then you have to remove it from the context which is the scattering of the Tribulation. again a cultic practice of taking verse out of context.

the Strangers of Peter and Paul are different you have blended them to be all Gentiles. but as stated above the Gentile possessed those lands only Israel was scattered throughout them by the Roman Armies who destroyed their temple in 70ad. Peter was thinking they were in the Tribulation when he wrote his letters.

what agrees with Paul in teaching is for us. but just because they both use the word strangers don't make them the same thing. Again you took the verse(in this case the word) out of context.

Peter did minster to both Gentile and Jew and he is writiing to both in the tribulation. I did say that the above lesson of How to divide rightly of which you didn't care to learn from in the first place was not exhaustive. and we only addressed the verse Stephen quoted. and the context of this Post which is Loss of Salvation.