[Easy E]

cp,

What that verse tells me is that time has no meaning where the Lord Himself is concerned, One day, or one minute, is the same as a thousand or a million years.

How far are you willing to take that? Does any length of time actually mean what it says or do you apply that to every period of time given in the Bible?

And, by the way, I cannot find any Scriptures which show that Christ will reign from Jerusalem.

How about the angel Gabriel in Luke 1:32,33? David's throne where is that? Is that in heaven?

Well, let's see what the Holy Scriptures in English say...
How about I Chronicles 29:23 and 27? Are these highly figurative or are they the Holy Spirit's interpretation given in plain English where even a guy like me can understand.

II Tim 2:15

Easy E

How about the angel Gabriel in Luke 1:32,33? David's throne where is that? Is that in heaven?

That was one of the many promises to Israel, and would have come true in Christ's day
but Israel did accept it, so the nation didn't receive it. Christ today rules over the twelve tribes of the OT Jews in heaven with the New Testament Jews who did accept Him.

Well, let's see what the Holy Scriptures in English say...
How about I Chronicles 29:23 and 27? Are these highly figurative or are they the Holy Spirit's interpretation given in plain English where even a guy like me can understand.

I don't understand the question.

Quote:
What that verse tells me is that time has no meaning where the Lord Himself is concerned, One day, or one minute, is the same as a thousand or a million years.

How far are you willing to take that? Does any length of time actually mean what it says or do you apply that to every period of time given in the Bible?

This has nothing to do with any period of time. Time is meaningless to God anytime, from eternity to eternity.

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

[Easy E]

cp,

That was one of the many promises to Israel, and would have come true in Christ's day
but Israel did accept it, so the nation didn't receive it. Christ today rules over the twelve tribes of the OT Jews in heaven with the New Testament Jews who did accept Him.

Chapter and verse?

Listen cp, you can go along and interpret til you run out of oxygen, but until you are prepared to accept what the Holy Spirit gave us about Christ's future earthly throne, then this conversation is over. Go ahead and teach whatever you want, but according to the Bible you are wrong.

David's throne is on earth in Jerusalem and Jesus was promised this throne. He has not received this throne yet.That is the plain teaching of the Bible. Time to move on.

This has nothing to do with any period of time. Time is meaningless to God anytime, from eternity to eternity.

So what about the Sabath in Exodus 20? Were the Jews expected to work six meaningless nothings and then rest for one meaningless nothings or greater or equal value? Or does God the "Creator of Time" deal with time elements when he deals with people who are in Time?

Easy E

So what about the Sabath in Exodus 20? Were the Jews expected to work six meaningless nothings and then rest for one meaningless nothings or greater or equal value? Or does God the "Creator of Time" deal with time elements when he deals with people who are in Time?

2 Peter 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

Easy, put some thought into this. The interpretation that you learned comes from half this verse, while the other half is ignored. But you can't pick and choose as freely as that. If the Jews were expected to work six meaningless nothingsand and rest for one meaningless nothing, then they also were expected to work for one meaningless nothing, and rest for six meaningless nothings.

Simple logic shows that this verse cannot be used to promote that "year/day" theory. Any theory that associates this verse with "six days," or six thousand years," or whatever, is based on a gross misreading of 2 Peter 3:8.

That was one of the many promises to Israel, and would have come true in Christ's day but Israel did accept it, so the nation didn't receive it. Christ today rules over the twelve tribes of the OT Jews in heaven with the New Testament Jews who did accept Him.

Sorry for the typo. It should have been "...but Israel did NOT accept it..."
A single "chapter and verse" won't cut it. Read the whole Bible. And use your own logic, don't rely on any common sense your mentors might have offered. The Lord Jesus Christ came to offer the Jews their restored kingdom. But it was taken from them and given to another nation (Matthew 21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.) What was the reason? They broke their part of the covenant. Was that "other nation" a future "remnant" of Jews? The Bible does not say so!

1 Pet. 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

The people Peter was speaking to were that chosen generation. They were faithful to Christ, and were raptured in those days. They are in heaven now, ruling and reigning in Christ's Kingdom. They are judging the twelve tribes of Israel in heaven.

Naturally, the leaders of today's Church are not expected to understand any of this; it is too close to the Bible for those indoctrinated into the beliefs of futurism to understand much of anything. I hate to be so harsh, but that is the way I see it.

Let me give you just one tiny glimpse of where they are coming from. John Darby was one of the originators of that belief system, and C.I. Scofield propagated that belief via his Reference Bible. See below how well he understood that Bible:

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

Here is Scofield's footnote to that verse:
"Gr. genea, the primary definition of which is, "race, kind, family, stock, breed," (so all lexicons.) That the word is used in this sense here is sure because none of 'these things,' i.e., the world-wide preaching of the kingdom, the great tribulation, thy return of the Lord in visible glory, and the regathering of the elect, occurred at the destruction of Jerusalem by Titus., AD70. The promise is, therefore, that the generation --- nation, or family of Israel --- will be preserved unto 'these things'; a promise wonderfully fulfilled to this day."

Never mind that his presuppossitions aree based on other presuppositions, notice this glaring error --- lie, if yuo will.

Matthew 1:17 So all the generations from Abraham to David are fourteen generations; and from David until the carrying away into Babylon are fourteen generations; and from the carrying away into Babylon unto Christ are fourteen generations.

Do the math here and you will see that Scofield lied through his teeth. There were 42 generations of Israel, not just "one family." He lied thoughout his Reference Bible. I don't expect that any of this will prompt you to study your Bible except in a dispensational way, but I just wanted you to know where your doctrine is coming from. But don't give up faith in Jesus Christ. You may not believe, or understand, everything He ever said, but at least you know by whom you are saved.

Good luck, and God bless...

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

[Easy E]

Simple logic shows that this verse cannot be used to promote that "year/day" theory. Any theory that associates this verse with "six days," or six thousand years," or whatever, is based on a gross misreading of 2 Peter 3:8.

That's just my point. The Bible interprets itself. Easy right?

As concerning the other points....

Chapters and Verses. Is that better?

I am still waiting to find out when you "think" Jesus will attain David's throne. You have not answered the question.

As to "mentors" I have a few, but I have only glanced at a SRB and I have never read Darby. So I don't really care what they 'teach,' I want to know what the Bible says.

It seems you are more interested in what you think it 'teaches.' Any system that leaves out the clear teaching of the Holy Scriptures concerning the Millenial reign of Christ and the fact that we are not in the Millenium should be scrapped. If you want I can give you those verses about the Throne again.

They are Luke 1:32,33 and I Chronicles 29:23 and 27. This is what the Bible says. I'll stick to that.

Don't worry, Easy E, Cpmac has just shown that he does not care what the Bible teaches - he will twist it to fit his theories. He already has websites promoting his false doctrine - he is not going to listen to what you have to say on the subject, because that would mean not just changing his theories and theology, but the work he already has on the www.

For those who care, it is obvious cpmac is ripping verses out of context. Let's look at those two he mentioned:

Psalms 90:1-6 Lord, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations. Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God. Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men. For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night. Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up. In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.

It does not say God has no timetable that He works by, but that He is not effected by time as man is.

2 Peter 3:3-10 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

Again, God is not effected or limited by time, as man is - He will still bring His coming judgment in His own time. Though man may doubt, God's judgment is still sure and still to come; therefore God wills that man would repent and turn to Him for salvation. This (seeming) delay of judgment (from our perspective) is so that more people will have the opporunity to hear the truth and be saved before the Lord returns.

2 Peter 3:11-17 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness. Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless. And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you; As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction. Ye therefore, beloved, seeing ye know these things before, beware lest ye also, being led away with the error of the wicked, fall from your own stedfastness.

[Easy E]

Thanks Jerry,

I just find it interesting how people can ignore the Bible's plain teaching on certain subjects. This case is of particular interest to me coming from an amillenialist background.

Conversations like this continue to prove, to me anyways, that a person can make the Bible 'teach' anything they want. We need to be concerned with what it says. "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation..." or something like that, eh?

Originally Posted by Easy E

Conversations like this continue to prove, to me anyways, that a person can make the Bible 'teach' anything they want. We need to be concerned with what it says. "no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation..." or something like that, eh?

BUT we know that anyone who "makes the Bible teach what they want" are actually ripping things out of context, explaining things away, refusing to take the Bible at face value - including taking it literally. The Bible states this:

Isaiah 28:9-13 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.

Bible study should involve taking precepts from all parts of God's Word - whereever the Bible speaks on something, it should be part of our conclusion on that subject/doctrine. If someone arrives at a conclusion that overlooks or contradicts other parts of God's Word, they are wrong, inasmuch as they cannot, will not, or have not taken that passage into consideration. That is why we see various people in Christendom teaching different salvation in different dispensations, teaching Amillenialism, teaching that we are bound to follow aspects of the Law that are done away with, etc. They have their conclusions - but they won't take the whole Bible into account; therefore they are wrong in that area.

Jerry & EasyE:

Are you Christ centered? Do you believe that anything Christ said should override anyting else that is to the contrary?

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com

EasyE

I am still waiting to find out when you "think" Jesus will attain David's throne. You have not answered the question.

Is Jesus sitting on any throne at this time?

cpmac
www.tribulationhoax.com