Quote:
Originally Posted by Winman
Do you have all the faithful (and how do you determine that?) translations to the HOT & GNT? In other words, do you have and possess the complete Word of God yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Greektim
I don't have ALL reliable translations.
I'm too poor

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish
Greektim, do you think that in order to for a man to have the complete Word of God he would need MULTIPLE translations?

Hey Greektim, I don't think you ever answered my question back in post no. 36; I put it in bold above in case you missed it.
As I understand it, you are suggesting that in order to for a man to have the complete Word of God he would need enough money to purchase a COLLECTION of what you consider to be reliable translations, is that what you are saying...

Originally Posted by George

This man ("solabiblia") has chosen to follow the road to apostasy - he would rather believe that a Bible believing scribe would "insert" words (ADD) into the Holy Text, than believe, the more likely scenario, that a Bible "corrector" (much like himself) would take words (SUBTRACT) out of the Holy Text, with which he didn't agree!

Think about that! WHO is more likely to CHANGE (or ADD or SUBTRACT) from the Holy words of God - People like most of us on this Forum (i.e. genuine Bible believers - WHO believe in the FINAL AUTHORITY of God's word) or people like "solabiblia" and "greektim" (Bible correctors - WHO have NO FINAL AUTHORITY other than their OWN OPINIONS)?

Why is a theory based on deletion any more valid than a theory based on insertion through textual tenacity?

We all agree that the witness of the Biblical texts shows remarkable tenacity. If you were to approach the subject without presuppositions, would you not conclude that the copyists would be more likely to expand the text than to delete passages?

What if you were not a KJO? Would you still be able to assert that no insertions took place, only deletions? How would you defend such a position?

[Winman]

What if you were not a KJO? Would you still be able to assert that no insertions took place, only deletions? How would you defend such a position?

Why don't you do the same?? Why don't you believe for one second that the God who created the heavens and the earth could also preserve the Word of God as he promised in many scriptures?

What kind of God do you believe in anyway? Do you believe that a loving God would tell us to seek him and not give us a way to find him? Do you believe a loving God would hide his Word, and then punish a person for eternity if a person failed to find his Word?

You have all your books, you understand Greek and Hebrew, but you do not have faith.

Heb 11:6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

The Bible says without faith it is impossible to please God. It also says you must believe that he rewards those who diligently seek him.

Matt 7:7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you: 8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

You don't believe this. You Bible doubters don't have a clue where the Word of God is, and spend all your time trying to convince others that they cannot find it either.

Then you come to this forum where true believers who do have faith in God's promises and can testify that we have indeed found God through his Holy Word, and try to spread your unbelief and doubt.

You are wasting your time. It is too late. We have already believed and are saved. We already know where God's Word is. We have faith.

John 10:25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me. 26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you. 27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me:

John 10:4 And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

You just don't get it do you? We know God, and He knows us.

But you Bible doubters by your own words admit you do not know God's Word.

Originally Posted by solabiblia

Why is a theory based on deletion any more valid than a theory based on insertion through textual tenacity?

WHY? WHY? WHY?....
"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." - 2 Tim 3:7

Originally Posted by solabiblia

We all agree that the witness of the Biblical texts shows remarkable tenacity. If you were to approach the subject without presuppositions, would you not conclude that the copyists would be more likely to expand the text than to delete passages?

No. We would jump right over that "cow patty" and conclude that your posts are STILL doing nothing on this forum other than casting doubt on God's Bible.

Originally Posted by solabiblia

What if you were not a KJO? Would you still be able to assert that no insertions took place, only deletions? How would you defend such a position?

WHAT IF? WHAT IF? What if you actually had a FINAL AUTHORITY like we do, one that you could hold in your hand and honor, and DEFEND THAT POSITION?

Ahhh, Solabiblia...
I had hoped over that last few weeks that your posts would improve here, but as everyone can see below you have not changed from your original reply to Biblestudent, and I take it you still think we are conducting in MINDLESS DRIVEL, so what difference does it make? Please, gather up your tenacity, deletions, presuppositions and theories and head back to your snake oil wagon, it's still parked where you left it and nobody is buying what you are "producing."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biblestudent
That's exactly the same thing that come to my mind. I would never join an anti-KJV forum unless I'm trying to persuade them, or give them a hard time, or ready to denounce the KJV. So it really makes me wonder why some people join the AV161 Bible Forum. I believe we would like to learn more about the AV1611 here. Others who have no plan to believe the AV1611 is the infallible Word of God are free to join other forums for that purpose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by solabiblia
Translation: we don't want any of our comments to be challenged in this forum. We have the sneaking feeling that our arguments have holes in them, and it makes us uncomfortable when someone points them out to us. So, go away and let us pat ourselves on the back for our MINDLESS DRIVEL, or we will attack you as a Bible-hater and cast aspersions on your state of grace.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

WHY? WHY? WHY?....
"Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth." - 2 Tim 3:7



No. We would jump right over that "cow patty" and conclude that your posts are STILL doing nothing on this forum other than casting doubt on God's Bible.



WHAT IF? WHAT IF? What if you actually had a FINAL AUTHORITY like we do, one that you could hold in your hand and honor, and DEFEND THAT POSITION?

Ahhh, Solabiblia...
I had hoped over that last few weeks that your posts would improve here, but as everyone can see below you have not changed from your original reply to Biblestudent, and I take it you still think we are conducting in MINDLESS DRIVEL, so what difference does it make? Please, gather up your tenacity, deletions, presuppositions and theories and head back to your snake oil wagon, it's still parked where you left it and nobody is buying what you are "producing."

Still no answers. Are these questions so dangerous or frightening that you have to run from them?

[QUOTE=Winman;19471]Why don't you do the same?? Why don't you believe for one second that the God who created the heavens and the earth could also preserve the Word of God as he promised in many scriptures?

What kind of God do you believe in anyway? Do you believe that a loving God would tell us to seek him and not give us a way to find him? Do you believe a loving God would hide his Word, and then punish a person for eternity if a person failed to find his Word?[QUOTE]

I do believe that God preserved His Word. I just don't happen to believe that God lost control of His Word and then revealed it again through the efforts of a Catholic priest and a group of seventeenth century baby baptizers.

[bibleprotector]

Originally Posted by solabiblia

We all agree that the witness of the Biblical texts shows remarkable tenacity.

There is a vast difference between believing that the Word of God has been generally preserved in a vast number of copies (and translations), all of which differ slightly one to another, as opposed to those who believe that while God has been able to keep His Word, He has also been able to providentially manifest it exactly correct in one particular version. Therefore, we all do not agree upon "all".

Originally Posted by solabiblia

If you were to approach the subject without presuppositions, would you not conclude that the copyists would be more likely to expand the text than to delete passages?

All objective data is interpreted. We always approach the subject with presuppositions, but if our starting point is belief in the Scripture itself, and we then apply Scripturally-consistent scientific and natural methods to interpret how the Scripture has come to us, we are going to get to correct conclusions, as opposed to a view which does not start with Scripture being in one's hand, but relagates truth to some ancient age when it was first inspired (therefore deemphasising the truth of what is in our hand).

Originally Posted by solabiblia

What if you were not a KJO? Would you still be able to assert that no insertions took place, only deletions? How would you defend such a position?

The problem is more primary. If you are not KJBO, you do not have any Scripture in your hand which you can rely upon to begin with. Once you start from Receiving God's Providentially Appointed Word, you then believe what the Scripture says about itself. You then understand about the originals, about copies and about history in line with that. Finally, you then examine whether or not deletions or additions have taken place in various texts, and you judge so, not only on the basis of scientific hypotheses (e.g. dittography, aural conditioning, etc.) but also on the firm foundation that you actually have the Word of God which claims to be the Word indeed, and incorrupt. In this self-authenticating reasoning, you will find that the King James Bible always matches up exactly, and that there are no unresolvable problems.

If you start with natural reasoning only, and start from a modern version in your hand (which was made by natural-only reasoning), your whole inquiry will collapse and fail, and you will come to the unbelieving conclusion that the King James Bible suffers from deletions and additions.

Of course, the KJBO view is smeared as "circular reasoning" (rather than as a self-evident truth), but the modern view is just as "circular", viz., 1. error exists, and all things are subject to error. 2. this is a Bible which exists, and error is exhibited in the past in copies, and we observe errors being made in the present. 3. therefore all Bibles are to some degree erroneous.

You can start with a KJB in your hand and yet have the modernist naturalistic thinking, and come to the wrong conclusions. Unless you view that God is able to work despite error, and is able to THWART error in history, you will always come to the wrong conclusions in this matter.

The Puritan view is that God is able to work against error in history, and would do so by manifesting truth. The King James Bible, that Bible which was made the official Puritan Bible in the 1650s, is true: "But the judgment shall sit, and they shall take away his dominion, to consume and to destroy it unto the end." (Daniel 7:26).

[bibleprotector]

Originally Posted by solabiblia

I do believe that God preserved His Word. I just don't happen to believe that God lost control of His Word and then revealed it again through the efforts of a Catholic priest and a group of seventeenth century baby baptizers.

God preserved His Word throughout all ages, it is evident. But God never lost control of it, though it were scattered. The person who rejects the King James Bible as true, pure and perfect is actually believing or implying that God has lost control over His Word. This is easy to show: They cannot supply a true copy which matches exactly what was inspired.

To imply that God somehow re-"revealed" His Word in 1611 is to ascribe false beliefs to King James Bible believers. To call old Anglicans antagonistic names is not befitting, and the lie about the Catholic priest is just crude and venomous.

[Winman]

Solabiblia

Why do you care that we believe the KJV to be the infallible Word of God? How does that hurt you? I am probably a little older than you and I have learned that it is a waste of time and weariness to debate any subject with those who do not agree with you.

Prov 26:4 Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him.

Does that bother you that I imply you are a fool? Well, we are believers of principal, and that is what we believe. Do you not also think we are fools?

1 Cor 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

So, I am sure you believe us to be fools. I can honestly say that that does not bother me in the least. I do not need your approval.

And 1 Cor 2:14 shows the difference between us. We believe the Bible is "spiritually discerned", you believe the Bible is discerned through scholarship.

The understanding of the scriptures does not come through scholarship, it is revealed to us by the Holy Spirit.

1 John 2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

If you want to know why we believe the KJV to be the infallible Word of God, there is a good article here.

http://av1611.com/kjbp/articles/moor...servation.html

All I can give you is my personal testimony. I got saved as a young boy about 11 years old in a Baptist Church in Panama City, Florida. We used only the KJV and that was all I knew. Back then it was what almost everybody knew to be the Word of God (1965).

My family moved away after that. I did not really come from a religious family. We did not attend church very often. But I had an Aunt who sent me a RSV. I used to read it for hours, but it caused me much confusion. I saw all the footnotes that said things like "better manuscripts omit this verse" and the like.

Well, that bothered me, and bothered me a lot. I wanted to know God's true Word. I prayed about it all the time and asked God to show me the truth. I had a little pocket KJV version New Testament, and to me this was the Word of God, I cannot really explain to you how I knew that, but I did. I did some study and read some books, but I was still tossed around by all the different and conflicting opinions.

Then one day I was reading and read a verse I had read many times before.

Matt 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.

Now, I had read this verse many times, but this time the phrase "every word' really jumped out at me. I thought very hard on this. And it occured to me that if God is truly a loving God, and if he expects us to live by every word, then it would only be right and fair that he provide "every word".

That probably means little to you, but that cleared up all the confusion for me. I knew that God's complete and pure and infallible Word was in the world. And I was also convinced that the KJV was that Word.

I don't expect this to make sense to you, I expect this to be pure foolishness to you. That is what the Bible says I should expect.

And yes, I do not mind one bit throwing doubt on your salvation. I think you should be very afraid. I personally have a hard time believeing that people who constantly cast doubt on God's Word can truly be saved.

I am not saying you are not a true believer and not saved, I sincerely hope you are. I simply have trouble believeing that anyone who so doubt's God's Word and promises can be saved.

Originally Posted by solabiblia

Still no answers. Are these questions so dangerous or frightening that you have to run from them?

I quit running a long time ago.
You however still need to take your journey from confusion...