Originally Posted by jerry

BUT if it is still offensive to Him today to sin in that manner, now we can prayerfully determine what type of clothing/garments would cross that line if worn by the opposite gender.

So then Jerry you do agree that the style of clothing that would be an abomination to God will change with each culture, right?

Your quote above is exactly the point I'm trying to make. It's a personal conviction between you and God. You pray to God, and Lord willing He will give you understanding in that area.

So then Jerry you do agree that the style of clothing that would be an abomination to God will change with each culture, right?

No, I don't believe culture is to determine our standards.

If I debate applications of the verse, some people write off the passage and what I am saying - so I am going to stick with what the verse actually says, and let you make the application.

no what I'm saying is people in a different upbringing may apply the verse differently, right?

There are more applications than pants and skirts. But I do not think one article worn in one culture by women is okay to be worn in a different culture by men (that's why I am anti-kilts).

That's it! It just clicked! The bible says "gird up your loins like a man." Girding your loins was a picture of pants, because you took the bottom of your garment and tucked it in your belt, to form the shape of pants. The Bible never tells a woman to gird up her loins. So if a woman has to do a job that requires her to "gird up her loins," then it would not be appropriate for her to do, right? So now the question is, is it still abominable to God which is what we have been talking about for a while now. I guess you can look at wearing kilts as abominable because somewhere along the way someone had to have strayed from what the original dress code was. And according to the Bible "pants" were worn by men and dresses were worn by women way back in the OT.

thanks again Jerry for all your help in talking to me! I really appreciate it.

lei-kjvonly

A lot of good discussion,I have benefited alot.
Ok then, let us take up to today world
God is never crazy to talk about something which is not there!
Which is mans clothing today and which is woman's
not only clothing but the way somebody puts(ear rings,hair styles,bracelets..etc)
Answer is really appreciated
Ev. Steve

[Renee]

What happened? I guess this is a dead subject.

Sometimes with the type of work women have to do today it is necessary to wear pants.

Picture this: I start up our 12 horse tiller and run it back and forth in a taro patch that has mud that comes up to my thighs. It take at least an hour to till this patch with a tiller that has swamp wheels. I am wearing a dress, being dragged along or drowned because of the weight of the mud on my dress. I will gird up my loins.

Or I am up patching the roof: I climb up the ladder with the rain pouring and the wind blowing (of course I could wit till the rain stops) with my can of wet patch. I smear the patch on one leak and turn to do another. I find myself stuck. I will gird up my loins.

My husband is pouring cement: It is getting late and the last batch of cement was late in coming, The thrd batch needs edging and finishing, I grab tools and help, I am squating and bending ... use a dress? I will gird up my loins.

In all cases above it was more proper, appropriate and modest for me to be wearing pants. When women did not do these kinds of work, perhaps drersses at all times could be required.

And so you don't ask. Yes I wear pants. I haven't give it much thought since I don't have to be poured into my pants. There are dresses that reveal more than some pants. If I ever get convicted I will stop wearing pants.

Without getting into whether pants is right or wrong on a woman - that is something you would have to study out for yourself - let's deal with this hypothetically:

If Deuteronomy 22:5 is referring to pants (or including pants), then perhaps God does not want women doing those activities that they would be forced to wear clothing He is against them wearing. There is one woman I have spoken with on another board that decided for pants because she wanted to skydive and could not imagine doing so in a dress or skirt. However, because God doesn't want women (and of course men too) wearing immodest clothing in general, then it logically fits that He would not want them participating in certain activities that would involve them wearing wrong or immodest clothing. Perhaps they shouldn't be doing that particular activity, perhaps they can still wear modest clothing in that setting - but would need to adapt what they wear or how they wear it and/or how specifically they are involved in the activity.

My point, we don't decide doctrine and standards based on what we want to do - we should be doing what is consistent with what we believe the Bible is teaching we should act, live, wear, etc.

An example: I don't go work out at public gyms or swim in public. Sure, I like to work out - but the music at a public gym is dangerous for me spiritually, the way people are dressed (at the gyms, beaches and public pools) is entirely immodest - even if I personally wore a shirt and shorts that covered my thighs (to uncover these areas is called nakedness in the Bible), others will not be dressed modestly. I would be putting myself in a position that causes me to compromise, and be seeing others improperly dressed (even if I am not lusting, I would still be continuously putting images in my mind by choosing to be there). It is not wrong to work out, get in shape, or swim, but in those environments, I believe it would be.

Pants are a modern garment, Jerry, only worn in the West for a few hundred years. They require extensive sewing, especially pants as they are made today, but for most of history garments were simply pieces of cloth draped and wrapped about the body in various ways, with a minimum of sewing, sometimes none, with a knot or a clasp of some sort used to hold it in place at the shoulders, and a belt at the waist. Both sexes wore these draped cloths, but in different ways. There are variations on this type of clothing all over the world. When I was researching the head covering I ran across many pictures of Greek and Roman clothing. Women were covered completely down to the feet, while men often hiked the cloth up over a belt that made a short skirt below the belt and exposed the legs. Women never exposed the legs. A kilt type skirt is a completely masculine garment. Google "Roman soldier" to see such a garment worn in the army. And here are some pictures of ancient Greek dress: http://content.answers.com/main/cont...eekClothes.jpg
http://www.travelblog.org/Photos/25149.html

I also looked up skirt in the old Webster's. While the word is commonly used in the Bible to refer to the edge of a garment, there are a couple of examples where it does mean a length of cloth worn by a man.

The lower and loose part of a coat or other garment; the part below the waist; as the skirt of a coat or mantle. 1 Sam.15.

To spread the skirt over, in Scripture, to take under one's care and protection Ruth.3.

Boaz did literally cover Ruth with his "skirt" -- the lower part of his robe-like garment in which he was sleeping, when she lay down at his feet. The action was symbolic of his desire to be her husband and protector.

I also googled "history of pants" and read the Wikipedia article. That's where it says pants are pretty recent in history, and women's wearing them even more recent. It says that women started wearing them in order to do heavy work of the sort Renee wrote about. They wore their long full skirts over the pants but hiked the skirts up around their waist because they get in the way of such work.

Skirts look funny on men to us because in our culture they are feminine. I don't think there is any Biblical reason to assume God regards the kilt kind as feminine.

As for pants, I don't see why they can't be made to be both modest and feminine. In fact the pants-like culotte skirt is recommended on many of the Christian modesty sites as the only practical and modest kind of garment for active girls. It does look more like a skirt than pants but it functions as pants.