[George]

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

No need to answer this with scripture a simple yes or no is sufficient for me, like I said this is for my understanding.

Aloha brother Steve,

Doxa's "simple" yeses or noes are not only the "LONGEST" I have ever seen, but they are also the most "confusing" I have ever read!

It simply amazes me as to how much confusion, leaven, and false doctrine is "floating" around Christian circles these days.

[atlas]

George and Biblestudent,

Yes some of the old timers were just fine with what they knew. They believed the Bible, and they did the best they could. So I no problem with Bible believers that may be wrong on a few issues.

It made me wonder what would happen to my church when I grow old and depart.

The church is still going strong and doing well. My family left because my daddy was lead to leave. He still likes the preacher there now as do I. He is a good man, he is also wrong on a few issues, but a man believes the Bible. Here is a link where you can listen to one of his sermons if you like. he is a good preacher and if you listen to you'd agree with him about 97% of the time.

Ted Crotts - Pastor of Blackwater Community Church

http://www.beyondsunset.org/files/Pr...tts_Index.html

He preached this at a Baptist camp meeting. The message is only 21 minutes long. Check him out he has the power of God on him. Now he is a country boy and never attended Bible college, so he in not very polished. I'm sure you'll like the message, it is pretty good. Most of the IFB churches in the community like him and think he is a good good man has a good church, just not right about every issue. I'll say this he prays about one hour per day. That's better than any IFB I know. That is how the church was built and kept going strong. Those old timers believed in praying. He also prays for every member of his church by name everyday. That was one of the teachings of the church. This is the pastors job, that is what we were taught. That's not a bad teaching really. The Blackwater Community Church has more power than almost any IFB church I have ever been to in my life. After you hear this let me know what you think about this preacher. You'll love him. Listen to the message The Man Christ Jesus, it's good preaching.


Atlas

I came to this board tonight to say something, and I found all these new messages.
But I will say it...in all the years that I have been on various forums, today was the first time I stooped so low as to pay evil for evil by saying hypocrite to George. After reading his ugly judgmental message to me, a fifty year old woman, I spoke to someone who really helped me to see what was going on here; hence, my reply.
But after spending time in the Word tonight, I see that I will continue on the road that God is leading me...one that will not repay evil for evil.
I am sorry that I was got tempted and replied the way I did, deserved or not, truthful or not, accurate or not.
Renee has also been dogging me since I began here on this forum, and at first I did not know why the hate/ugly messages.
But now I see.
My husband wonders why I am at yet another place that beats Christians like me up without cause. He can't understand it, nor can I. Nor can he understand when people constantly twist what I say into something else and act like they are Christians.
It is like I am handing someone a baseball bat and say beat me I like it.

What upsets me so much, is this KJV forum thing. It kind of scares me.
Kind of confuses me, really, now, as I see something greatly wrong with what is going on here. Is this the true picture and outcome of KJV only folks?
It just can't be.
The Bibles says to study to show thyself approved; I cannot believe that there are some here who don't like it when you study to show yourself approved, rightly dividing the Word...even if it means learning from the Greek words that were translated into English.

But even more, people like George and Renee who have a problem with people do not talk to them privately, but blast people and fleece them openly and brazenly and judgmentally without knowing who they are either.
And yet, people rally to their side, like they are good Christians serving the Lord in the Lord's ways. This also disturbs me greatly.

You all can say that I am humanist, into psychology and all those things, of which I am not, and lie and make up stuff, but that does not make it true. You can say things about "tazers" or whatever, but that does not make it true.
You can all rally around and say it is so, but it is not.
For you all know what I said.

As I said, I embrace All of the Word of God. I still believe it is not good to do Sword Wars. I can get out 1 & 2 Timothy and Titus and so forth and quote Scriptures if you want, but I am sure you all know where they are, and what we are to do, and what we are not to do...when speaking to one another.

I am tired. But even more I am so sad...so sad to see how some handle the Word of God. The End.

[Renee]

Renee has also been dogging me since I began here on this forum, and at first I did not know why the hate/ugly messages.
But now I see.

Doxa, for one, I have not dogged you and for another, I went and reread my post that concern you and if there are any hate and ugly messages, you have read them into my post. I hate evil and will never let anyone say something about my husband that is not true. He is true and forthright. He says what he means, a little hard to take sometimes, I grant you that. With George you know where you stand, and like he said if the heat is too hot get out of the kitchen.

George is 68 and I am 64, we are still a bit older then you, don't you think. I could have come down on you for that "George, George, George" and I didn't so, again you are wrong about my dogging you. That was a little condescending of you and I let it pass even though it was not respectful of an elder. An elder person in age and biblical learning.

I am not counting you as lost, only God knows your heart. Only be sure of the gospel by which you were (and I hope are)saved.

In another post I posted my salvation testimony. I believed all that the Catholic thought. I said the Apostle's Creed and it was my own creed. All that I believed and was lost and headed for hell. I loved the Lord and tried to serve Him continually, but it was all dung on the dung heap. After we were married for three years, I accepted the finished work on the Cross, His death, burial, resurection, and assencion. I received MY Lord as my Saviour, I became a child of God.

There is only on Gospel of Salvation!

I am not sorry for anything I have said, for I speak the truth and lie not. I will defend my husband in all truth, I have this right. As a wife of 47 years I know a lot more about George then you do, so bug off and don't put words in his mouth. And this may be personal to you, but to me it is not. I would gladly shout it to the whole world.

Renee

After a difficult night, my husband and I spoke this morning about this crisis here and I mentioned that it appears that the KJV only folks here reject the Greek manuscripts where the KJV came from, and he told me that that was it, the makings of a cult.
Ironically, I too last night was in deep contemplation about all this. And I thought about a scenario where I was in Heaven and Jesus came to me and lovingly handed me the Book of John that HE reconstituted/re-materialized, the original Greek, the same handwritten manuscript that John wrote and gave me understanding to read it. Trembling, I would be for sure, to be given such a gift to look at and be able to read, as I so love the Book of John.
And I realized, I would not be telling the Lord Jesus, no thanks, King James always worked for me, I don't need this old thing.
Actually, I would be totally overwhelmed, in such unspeakable joy.

As I thought on all these things, I certainly realize that I do believe that the Greek as far as studying the New Testament, is important to me because I know enough about languages to know that Greek for example is a larger dictionary than English, and being that I am German I sometimes think in German still and know that it often takes several English words to totally translate some German words that I know, and the other way too.

What I do know is that I treasure the King James Bible and it is a treasure and has been for centuries. But I do not know the hundreds of other translations into other languages around the world and how they relate to the KJV, nor do I know the translators or have any idea how good even the best of them are. I don't know much about them at all, and I probably don't have the ability to know without much, much study in their languages.

This is the heartbeat of all of this and the realization why I am probably batting heads with people here.
If God should give me the original manuscripts and understanding to know the original languages, I would receive it totally, much more than the KJV...even if they were identical or not.
And so in light of this truth of how I feel, and believe, perhaps I really don't belong here.
So while for me the KING JAMES BIBLE might be the best BIBLE to me on planet earth, I certainly would not reject the original "real" original manuscripts if God were to give them to me.
So I guess that is this forums ticket to boot me out.
For that is how I believe.

[peopleoftheway]

After a difficult night, my husband and I spoke this morning about this crisis here and I mentioned that it appears that the KJV only folks here reject the Greek manuscripts where the KJV came from, and he told me that that was it, the makings of a cult.

First of, a Cult as you put it has a central Body that MAKES decisions for its members, what should be abundantly clear from this forum is that MANY disagree with doctrinal issues, so therefore how can it be a cult when there those sort of disagreements. We are independent, the Bible is our final authority not a man, not a college or a body.

it appears that the KJV only folks here reject the Greek manuscripts

What greek manuscripts? We reject the westcott and hort / nestle / aland texts
No one here rejects the Textus Receptus, if they do then they don't belong on this forum.

I thought about a scenario where I was in Heaven and Jesus came to me and lovingly handed me the Book of John that HE reconstituted/re-materialized, the original Greek, the same handwritten manuscript that John wrote and gave me understanding to read it. Trembling, I would be for sure, to be given such a gift to look at and be able to read, as I so love the Book of John.

Matthew 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

The "originals" have passed away, Christ himself said that his words wouldn't, and they haven't, they are preserved in the KJB.
You have the book of John to read now, what on earth are you talking about.

As for your simple "yes" or "no" to my five questions.
You clearly don't have a handle on doctrinal issues and the pitfalls of false doctrine, especially concerning salvation. The Roman Catholics may believe that Jesus exists, but let me tell you this, they are NOT born again, they believe in a different jesus.

2 Thessalonians 1:7
And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,
8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Galatians 1:6
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervertthe gospel of Christ.

The Catholic Church came from babylon, the queen of heaven whom they worshiped became mary

Jeremiah 7:18
The children gather wood, and the fathers kindle the fire, and the women knead their dough, to make cakes to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto other gods, that they may provoke me to anger.

As for the rest of what you pasted, It seems to me you are either Charismatic or right on the fringe, pentecostal? Feeling / emotion based religion, no care for real doctrine, real Gospel just how "we feel".

Let me expound this verse and I pray that it strikes your understanding from the LORD Jesus Christ (Not in a vision, nor a revelation, you verge on Todd Bently ground by saying that stuff) BUT BY WORD ALONE.

Matthew 7:13
Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by atlas

Here is a link where you can listen to one of his sermons if you like. he is a good preacher and if you listen to you'd agree with him about 97% of the time.

Amen to a powerful preaching!

[Josh]

The problem is that you, Doxa, don't believe the Bible. You do not believe that God has preserved His word in the King James Bible. You believe that if you don't like something in the Bible, or it doesn't sound right to you, then the true meaning must have been lost. This is where false doctrines come from, people inserting what they think God really said or meant into the Bible. We do not need to go back to the Greek! It's of no use to us anymore! Otherwise God wasted His time giving us His word in English! Furthermore, God preserved His word in the KJB, God did it. Therefore, since He gave it to us and expects and commands us to study it, why would we go back to the Greek, when we have a very high chance of translating it incorrectly? God already gave us His word.

And even further still, don't you think it's a little hard for women to hold the possition of Pastor or Deacon in the church, seeing as they must find a way to be the husband of one wife first?

I thought about what you said, and I wanted to comment about your definition of pentecostal or charismatic.
Interesting. Even more I see that your five questions were so to speak trick questions, indeed, although you said they were not, so you could be loaded with your bag of answers for it. I know I made it very hard for you because I answered a lot by Scripture.

Is it because I believe in miracles and visions and obviously gift of tongues per the many, many Scripture verses pertaining to it...
But what would you say if I told you that I have been to a church for a time that had a true manifestation visit from the Lord?
Where people saw amazing things?
I did.
No tricks.
Or should I deny a summer of miracles that I had one year?
Or should I deny a year where God kept telling me in many ways that HE would never leave or forsake me...which brought me through many tough times since then?
Or when HE spoke to me directly?
You can throw out all those Scriptures from the Bible of God's amazing presence in our lives, but I will not nor can I...I have seen too much.

Or would you rather hear about my persecutions? I have had many of those too. Paul in the New Testament elaborates on his trials.

So, I will do as you bid...quote Scriptures to validate my point. Particularly consider the last verse, "but denying the power thereof"

2 Tim 3:1-6

3 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.

2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,

3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,

4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;

5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.


KJV

Wow, Josh, you said to me "You believe that if you don't like something in the Bible, or it doesn't sound right to you, then the true meaning must have been lost. This is where false doctrines come from, people inserting what they think God really said or meant into the Bible." AND THERE YOU SAID -- PASTOR. Wow, I just did a search in the KJV concordance for Pastor and it told me that there is only one mention of PASTOR in the King James Bible. Here it is...

KJV

Jer 17:16-17
16 As for me, I have not hastened from being a pastor to follow thee: neither have I desired the woeful day; thou knowest: that which came out of my lips was right before thee.
KJV