Sorry to disagree with you.

Yes we are born of God. But to say that no matter what, after you become a Christian you are going to Heaven. So, people who backslide and walk away from God are still saved when their choice is clear they are rejecting God. That is careless and not provable.

Hebrews 2:1 Therefore we ought to give the more earnest heed to the things which we have heard, lest at any time we should let them slip.
2 For if the word spoken by angels was stedfast, and every transgression and disobedience received a just recompence of reward;
3 How shall we escape, if we neglect so great salvation...

"Giving heed" "Let them slip" "every transgression...received a just...reward" "how shall we escape if we neglect so great salvation" don't sound like once saved always saved.

1 Corinthians 9:27 But I keep under my body, and bring it into subjection: lest that by any means, when I have preached to others, I myself should be a castaway.

This doesn't sound like once saved always saved either.

There are more. Your analogy with your father and your family doesn't answer what these verses teach. We can disagree on what they mean, but I believe it is clear that even though we are saved by grace through faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ on the cross and Him rising from the dead, we can reject it later in life if we so choose. I agree that isn't always probable, but I've seen it happen. To say they were never saved in the first place is a cop-out. To say they are going to heaven after they have openly rejected Christ after being a Christian is careless.

First you have to prove that someone who PROFESSES to be saved was actually saved - then they lost their salvation. Then you need to show some verses where God says what exactly someone needs to do to be lost again.

If you want to address the passages you pointed out:

Hebrews 2 - If someone in Israel rejected the testimony of the Law they got in trouble - even so, if someone rejects the Gospel message, they are lost. They didn't get saved then lost.

1 Corinthians 9:24-27 is dealing with service - running the race of the Christian life, losing your reward, being put on the shelf. It is not dealing with the loss of salvation.

[Jeff]

1 Corinthians 3:11-15 For other foundation can no man lay than that is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 12 Now if any man build upon this foundation gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, stubble; 13 Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is. 14 If any man's work abide which he hath built thereupon, he shall receive a reward. 15 If any man's work shall be burned, he shall suffer loss: but he himself shall be saved; yet so as by fire.

Right - a man's works could be burned up and rewards lost, BUT he is still saved.

[Brother Tim]

Revangelist said, To say they were never saved in the first place is a cop-out.

Is this a cop-out?
1 John 2:19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.

What is the level of sin at which you cross the line back from saved to lost? Sin is sin. To break any commandment is to break the whole. If one who is truly saved and commits a sin, and in the process of that sin, dies, is he lost?

I agree that isn't always probable, but I've seen it happen.

Anecdotal stories should NEVER be used to establish or support doctrine. The Scriptures themselves are the only authority.

[atlas]

Revangelist,

Who's works are keeping you saved?

WHY will you not answer a simple question?

This is like a tennis game. I hit you the ball, you have yet to hit it back. Tell me who is keeping you saved. It is so simple.

This is not a hard question to answer. You will not answer it why not?

I'll tell you why.

YOU ARE KEEPING YOURSELF SAVED.

If you will say WHO IS KEEPING you saved we can move on.

You can say I am keeping myself saved or God is keeping me saved. It is that simple. I have told you over and over who is keeping me saved. You will not tell anyone who is keeping you saved. Why are you ashamed to say what you believe? You are an evangelist right? Your job is to tell people how to get saved. Why will you not tell me what is keeping me saved and who's works are keeping me saved. I'm just a lowly bible student and I'll tell you in a heartbeat who is keeping me saved. This is troubling to me. None of you guys like to tell who is keeping you saved, all of you dance around the issue every time I bring it up. I will try to ask you one more time. I know you understand the question being an evangelist and all, maybe you will tell me this time.

Who is keeping you saved?



Atlas.

You all want to believe once saved always saved. Great! Jesus paid a great price for our salvation, so God is not looking to take it away from us. However, I must contest your contention that it is impossible for a Christian to decide against it. To say that a person is going to heaven no matter what is hyperbole.

You as a Christian had to decide to accept the free gift of salvation in the first place. So, you accept it and God grants it. Now you want me to believe that years down the road, if you decide you want nothing to do with God or His salvation, God is still obligated to take you to heaven. That's careless. Especially with all the warnings in the NT (Hebrews 6:4 for example). You conveniently come up with "well, they weren't really saved in the first place". That let's you still believe that careless doctrine.

I believe that the only "work" we have to do to get saved is "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ". So, then the only work to lose it would be to believe it no longer. You all most likely know someone who you were convinced was a Christian, then something happened and they are away from the Lord. Then you convenienlt change your mind about their salvation in the first place. Hyperbole!

Even churches that teach eternal security have altar calls for people to rededicate themselves to the Lord. If they are saved, why the need to rededicate? Getting to heaven with no rewards is FAR better than having "everything" and ending up in hell.

Eternal security doctrines are careless. It's almost like having a doctrine of not fearing God.

BTW: The Book of Hebrews isn't just for "Christian Jews". It's in the NT and it's doctrine is for all Christians. Otherwise it would spell that fact out and/or not be in the Bible in the first place. Randomly dispensationalizing portions of the NT to satisfy a doctrine isn't proper Biblical interpretation.

...I misspelled "conveniently" in my last thread....sorry.

Atlas, I've answered your question. You don't seem to be accepting it.

Originally Posted by Revangelist

However, I must contest your contention that it is impossible for a Christian to decide against it. To say that a person is going to heaven no matter what is hyperbole.

...So, you accept it and God grants it. Now you want me to believe that years down the road, if you decide you want nothing to do with God or His salvation, God is still obligated to take you to heaven. That's careless.

You have yet to prove that a true child of God can reject his salvation. God will chastise His own - that is what Hebrews 12 teaches us. There is no Biblical authority for your opinion that a child of God could get so far backslidden that he would reject the Lord and his free gift of salvation. I do not believe God would ever let that believer get to that point. He will bring chastisement, and even death if the person persists in their rebellion - but He has promised NEVER to leave them nor forsake them - and if He sent them to Hell, He broke His promise...

So the only problem I see is your understanding of the faithfulness of God.

1 Corinthians 1:9 God is faithful, by whom ye were called unto the fellowship of his Son Jesus Christ our Lord.

1 Corinthians 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man: but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be able to bear it.

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.

2 Thessalonians 3:3 But the Lord is faithful, who shall stablish you, and keep you from evil.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

2 Timothy 2:11-13 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him: If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us: If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Hebrews 10:23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised

1 Peter 4:19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of God commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.

1 John 1:9 If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Hebrews 6:17-18 Wherein God, willing more abundantly to shew unto the heirs of promise the immutability of his counsel, confirmed it by an oath: That by two immutable things, in which it was impossible for God to lie, we might have a strong consolation, who have fled for refuge to lay hold upon the hope set before us: