[peopleoftheway]

Originally Posted by Greektim

George, you can accuse me all you want. That is your perrogative. But you don't know me well enough to say what my intentions are. You speak like we are old enemies that have been arguing this for a long time. You might be arguing this with other people for a while, but you don't know me, brother. So how can you expect to know my intentions to the original question?

I honestly wanted to know where Gipp recieved his degree, whether it matters or not. I was always under the assumption that Gipp was a TRO of the Burgon persuasion. But someone called him a Ruckmanite, and that aroused my curiosity. I could tell a lot about a person by finding out where they recieved their formal education. So while you may not like me, a brother in Christ, for my doctrinal positions, please understand I am just trying to get a question answered about a man I don't know much about. I came here hoping someone could help me. Here it is, post forty, and I still don't have anything for certain. If I knew it was going to take this long to get to nowhere, then I would have just emailed him.

Why didn't you just email the man in the first place!
I think you knew exactly the reaction you would get.

You might be arguing this with other people for a while, but you don't know me, brother. So how can you expect to know my intentions to the original question?

Let me answer this one for you

Your 65 odd posts, and yes I read them all last night, they are what betrays you, in a few of them you were freesundayschoollessons cheerleader and we all know the contention he brought. The words that you have written, and may I add that you have used a minimal amount of "scripture" in your posts on this forum clearly show us your position, so please, don't try to appear all hurt and put out of place when a bible believer rebukes you. I am ashamed that any man who calls himself a brother in Christ does not believe God in all his Wisdom and Might has not left us his WORD in one place to be read, studied and expounded ( By those with no formal education nor qualifications) and yet believes he has left his word in scattered places, in subtracted contradicting versions, in philosophy leavened texts, in Roman Catholic manuscripts, in gender-neutral changes, in versions that "take away" his word, versions that "add to" his word and thinks that among all this mess and confusion God is the Author. God Forbid!

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

What gets to me more, is that you are a young Pastor, if you were going to the greek, multiple versions etc and edifying only yourself and your scholarly theologian brethren then I have no problem with your own puffed up against each other attitude, but to even think you are trying to edify young men and women with "the Greek" telling them that what they read dosent really mean what it says "how they read it" but they must add some mysterious greek meaning for God to show them the real truth of his word or even worse, rely on someone who "knows the greek" to show them!
I have seen so many younger christians become apostate because of the confusion within churches today, never mind confusing them more with added IQ and "the Greek"

Philippians 2:5-11 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
JESUS
With such an amazing few verses of scripture, can you really stand by idly while "scholars" and "theologians" have REMOVED the name God exalted above every other name! up to 40 times in modern versions in some cases? And butchered Philippians 2:6 to attack the Godhead.
I guess you can.

[George]

Originally Posted by Greektim

George, you can accuse me all you want. That is your perrogative. But you don't know me well enough to say what my intentions are. You speak like we are old enemies that have been arguing this for a long time. You might be arguing this with other people for a while, but you don't know me, brother. So how can you expect to know my intentions to the original question?

I honestly wanted to know where Gipp recieved his degree, whether it matters or not. I was always under the assumption that Gipp was a TRO of the Burgon persuasion. But someone called him a Ruckmanite, and that aroused my curiosity. I could tell a lot about a person by finding out where they recieved their formal education. So while you may not like me, a brother in Christ, for my doctrinal positions, please understand I am just trying to get a question answered about a man I don't know much about. I came here hoping someone could help me. Here it is, post forty, and I still don't have anything for certain. If I knew it was going to take this long to get to nowhere, then I would have just emailed him.

greektim,

Your "doctrinal position" is:

"I am extremely against the KJV only view." - If that is true, then WHY are you here? That's not a complicated question. WHY does a person (a "pastor") join a AV1611 Bible Forum, knowing full well what most of us believe? Curiosity? If it was just curiosity you could have come and "browsed around" and discovered what we believe. However you "JOINED" an AV1611 Bible Forum, and there's the rub!

I would never "JOIN" an anti-King James Bible Forum, so WHY do you "JOIN" an AV1611 Bible Forum - knowing in advance that most of us on the Forum hold a "doctrinal position" that you are "extremely against"???

You say I don't know you - I've dealt with dozens of young men just like yourself over the last 40 years. The fact that you are willing to "join" a Forum with people with whom you are "extremely against" speaks volumes about your "CHARACTER"; the name that you chose to identify yourself by on an AV1611 Bible Forum speaks volumes about WHAT you are here for (i.e. debate, division, & confusion); an examination of your Posts tells us that you are NOT a genuine Bible believer because No.1 you don't have any idea WHAT a Holy Bible is (ONE BOOK that you can hold in your hands); and No. 2 you don't even know WHERE you can find a Holy Bible (a Book that you can hold in your hands - not several "books" or a bunch of manuscripts); and lastly a brief look at your blog reveals that you recommend some strong ANTI-King James Bible people, one of which ("freesundayschoollessons") was BANNED" from this Forum for being a "trouble maker". In addition, the "TITLE" ("Debating Theological Issues") of your blog reveals a lack of spiritual understanding. Don't you know that "debating" is a serious sin? [Romans 1:29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,] WHY would a "pastor" name his blog "Debating Theological Issues" unless he was ignorant of the fact that "DEBATE" is a serious sin? Hmmm?

I may not know you - but I can tell you this much: I know enough about you - to not want to have anything to do with you, your friends, or your blog, or any Forums that you would recommend. Supposedly, you have been called to preach "the word", but the sad fact is you don't have any regard for the Holy words within the King James Bible, because, according to you and your "friends" IT'S JUST A TRANSLATION - NOT GOD'S WORD!

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

I don't go on to your "blog" or your friends blogs and/or Forums and "stir up trouble" - so, again - WHY do you "JOIN" with us and "stir up trouble" here? I have been circumspect in avoiding "Joining" your blog or your friends blogs/Forums in order to AVOID stirring up trouble on them - WHY do people like yourself, "solabiblia", ""freesundayschoollessons", and numerous other Bible deniers come here and always "stir up trouble", and then play the "innocent offended party" when people like myself take you to task?

We didn't invite you here - you came here and "JOINED" with us on your own volition - If you don't "like it" here, you can leave under the same conditions. However, if you choose to stay, I can tell you this much: you and "solabiblia" are disingenuous people, and I for one, am under no obligation to treat you like I do the rest of the genuine Bible believers here.

[ChaplainPaul]

Originally Posted by George

greektim,

Your "doctrinal position" is:
"I am extremely against the KJV only view."

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.
18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

WHY do you "JOIN" with us and "stir up trouble" here?

Thanks for reminding me of the passage in Romans. I guess it wasn't enough that the Lord was leading me to 1 Timothy 1:5-6.

5 Now the end of the commandment is charity out of a pure heart,
and of a good conscience, and of faith unfeigned:
6 From which some having swerved have turned aside unto vain
jangling;

It is so tempting sometimes to engage these folks, which I do sometimes elsewhere. I think I'm in a discussion with someone who wants to understand my position on the King James Bible. Apparently, for the most part, that's just not the case. The discussions are always fruitless. They rarely concede I'm right on anything. They will not recognize differences of substance and content between the King James Bible and the modern versions. If they are unable, their eyes are blinded. If they are unwilling, they are deceitful.

Not one of them cares where Sam Gipp received his degree, unless it gives them ammunition to malign his character and further disparage our view of the King James Bible. The only interest in his degree seems to be to turn people away from his teaching.

I'm sorry to have to agree with you, George. You are right about them being here to stir up trouble. Your words are also a reminder to me to not be like that back, but mark them and avoid them. They say they are our brothers in Christ, and I want to believe them, but Scripture is clear that in what they're doing, they are not serving the Lord Jesus Christ. The small benefit I've received from trying to contend with them has been far outweighed by the frustration gained and time wasted. How sad it has to be like that.

[Luke]

I could tell a lot about a person by finding out where they recieved their formal education.

This is why noone is answering you. You are going to throw a net over the man based on where his education came from.

Here is the best answer you'll get

Gipp got his degree from the Aliens. The ones with blue blood.

EDIT: Having said that, and after reading what George said, as a Pastor, don't you have better things to do, such as feeding your flock? Perhaps give some of them a call and see how they are doing. Forget about Gipp and Ruckman. I can tell you they don't give a thought for you, or even know who you are. If you are trying to make a name for yourself amongst the "popular crowd" then this is an easy way to do it, but what will you have achieved. Nothing but damaging people's faith in a book. Go for it....

[Winman]

Greektim

I personally do not know where Sam Gipp got his degree. Until I came to this forum, I had not even heard of Sam Gipp that I remember. I have heard of Peter Ruckman, but I know very little of him as well.

To me, it doesn't matter where a person got their education. Some of the dumbest people I have ever known have titles from big universities, and some of the wisest people I have known have very little formal education. Look at the worldwide financial mess that is happening right now. Who do you think is running all these corporations into the ground, the highly educated elite, or the simple common man?

I think you know the answer. Just because you have a degree does not mean you are intelligent.

You said in one post that you would appreciate helpful advice to your ministry. I have some advice. Do not be a respecter of persons.

Acts 10:34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: 35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

God doesn't care where Sam Gipp got his degree, only that he fears God and works righteousness.

1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: 27 But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; 28 And base things of the world, and things which are despised, hath God chosen, yea, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: 29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

It is not folks with titles you should be worried about Greektim, it is simple believers. For it is these that God has chosen to confound the wise.

Hello GreekTim,

I was very moved by your post at your blog....."How I Dealt With Grief." I extend my sincere sympathies. Perhaps your experience has prepared you for enduring other kinds of grief.....such as what you are experiencing here on this forum for asking a simple question....yet you are responding with amazing grace.

Blessings and shalom,

Tandi

[George]

Originally Posted by Tandi

"Hello GreekTim,

I was very moved by your post at your blog....."How I Dealt With Grief." I extend my sincere sympathies. Perhaps your experience has prepared you for enduring other kinds of grief.....such as what you are experiencing here on THIS FORUM for asking a simple question....yet you are responding with amazing grace ."

Blessings and shalom,

Tandi

Tandi,

I will ask you the same question I asked "greektim" and "solabiblia" - WHY are you here? If we are such a bunch of intolerant bigots - WHY do you bother staying here? Quite often you end up supporting Bible deniers - WHY don't you all get together and start your own blog or Forum where you can bad-mouth us all you want without getting jumped for being unscriptural or out of order?

You profess that you are a King James Bible believer, BUT your Posts (i.e. the comments within them) continually reveal that you are nothing of the sort!

If you don't like us; and if you "think" that we are a bunch of "meanies"; and that we treat others unfairly and give them "grief" ; WHY do you continue putting up with us? If we are as "mean" and as "cruel" as you "think" we are, why not move on to greener pastures, where the "brethren" are always sweet, and kind, and (of course) "non-judgmental" - with the exception of despising the Holy word of God found within the pages of the King James Bible?

Whether you like to hear it or not - your Posts reveal that (just like "greektim" & "solabilia") you have NO FINAL AUTHORITY (other than your personal "opinions") when it comes to faith and practice. And do you know what? I could care less! I'm NOT your father or your husband - I have no "authority" over you whatsoever, BUT when you cross my Bible I am going to treat you just the same as I do all Bible deniers.

You have entered "the arena" (Bible doctrine) where real men dwell and abide; and you know what they say: "If you can't stand the heat, you'd better get out of the kitchen".

This Forum is NOT the "Girl Scouts" or the "Camp Fire Girls", and while we do not object to women participating, we are not going to "feminize" our conduct to suit you or any other member who MAY have a Politically Correct (Humanistic) Philosophy or outlook on WHAT we say, or HOW we say it.

Perhaps you haven't met many "real" men (with the "feminization" of American men there aren't many of us left ). But the fact is: for 48 years my wife hasn't told me WHAT to say, or HOW to say it, and you can rest assured that I am not going to let you or any "feminized" Christian man tell me what to say either!

If you decide to stay, you'd better get used to it. After 69 years I sure ain't going to change to suit some woman (who I don't know), who has so little spiritual discernment, that she is a "Judaizer" and doesn't even know it!

[George]

"I personally do not know where Sam Gipp got his degree. Until I came to this forum, I had not even heard of Sam Gipp that I remember. I have heard of Peter Ruckman, but I know very little of him as well."

Aloha brother Winman,

You may be surprised by what I am going to say - but I do not know Sam Gipp and have never read any of his books. I do know that he came to the Island of Kauai and preached a couple of times and I didn't go to hear him because the church that brought him over is a totalitarian dictatorship (which doesn't speak well about WHO brother Gipp chooses to associate with.)

My whole point in this "donnybrook" is I really don't care WHERE a man has gone to "SCHOOL" or whether he has a "DEGREE" or not!

Peter James, John, and many of the other Apostles NEVER went to SCHOOL and the Lord Jesus Christ "picked" them (I suspect that one of the reasons for choosing them was the fact that they HADN'T GONE TO SCHOOL and in turn had never been "brain-washed" by a bunch of Pharisaical Apostate "Professors"), and you know what? They did just fine!

Apollos was "mighty in the scriptures" and yet had to be "straightened-out" by a couple of ordinary Christians who sewed tents (Priscilla & Aquila). And the Apostle Paul (who had learned from the top "PhD" of his time {Gamaliel} counted his "DEGREES" as "DUNG"! I refuse to "translate" THAT in the "vernacular" so that all those with "degrees" in the Greek & Hebrew can understand it! )

The fact is, many of these people with "degrees", or those people who place "significance" in a man with a "degree", are "puffed-up" intellectual elitists, who look down their noses upon all of the "unwashed masses" (you & me) as a bunch of "ignoramuses".

I've had my "fill" of them for over 40 years, and I refuse to be "cowed" by them or "impressed" with them! They are nothing but a bunch of Bible denying apostates living off of ignorant Christians who "think" that because they (the Bible deniers) have a "degree" - THEY MUST KNOW WHAT THEY ARE TALKING ABOUT!

Genuine Bible believers must not "give place" to these people - "NO, NOT FOR AN HOUR" [Galatians 2:5] If we fail to confront them and "contend for the faith" - we will be failing in our responsibility to WARN the brethren and our DUTY to "admonish", "reprove", or "rebuke" the "GAINSAYERS"!

When dealing with "gainsayers" & "apostates" we are not required to be polite and "sweet". These people are out to spread their perverse "LEAVEN" and they have no principles! They will not hesitate to "join" with us and through guile and subtlety they will try to undermine our faith in God's Holy word. I for one, refuse to stand by and do nothing about that.

We are in a WAR brother, and church history has demonstrated over and over again that the enemy that we must beware of is WITHIN our ranks! The Apostle Paul WARNED us about this [Acts 20:17-32] and every church that ever was in existence from the Apostle's time up to the early 1900's has IGNORED that WARNING and has fallen into APOSTASY! There have been NO EXCEPTIONS!

I will not cease to WARN the brethren - whether they like me or not; whether think that I am out of order or not; and whether they believe that I am just a crotchety old man or not! Now is not the time to let down our guard:

1 Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
9 Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by Greektim

George, you can accuse me all you want. That is your perrogative. But you don't know me well enough to say what my intentions are. You speak like we are old enemies that have been arguing this for a long time. You might be arguing this with other people for a while, but you don't know me, brother. So how can you expect to know my intentions to the original question?

I honestly wanted to know where Gipp recieved his degree, whether it matters or not. I was always under the assumption that Gipp was a TRO of the Burgon persuasion. But someone called him a Ruckmanite, and that aroused my curiosity. I could tell a lot about a person by finding out where they recieved their formal education. So while you may not like me, a brother in Christ, for my doctrinal positions, please understand I am just trying to get a question answered about a man I don't know much about. I came here hoping someone could help me. Here it is, post forty, and I still don't have anything for certain. If I knew it was going to take this long to get to nowhere, then I would have just emailed him.

This is what I told you Greektim, no profit at all. You have just email Sam Gipp, he's the one who can rightfully answer you. I just don't know if you have quoted a single verse of the Bible in your post/ question and I guessed there's no actually a "Theological Issues" you presented. As a young pastor, I respect you but try to remember this admonition from Paul to young pastor Timothy:
1 Timothy 3:6 Not a novice, lest being lifted up with pride he fall into the condemnation of the devil.

Originally Posted by Greektim

I don't know much about Gipp, so one way to learn about him is to see where he did his formal training. No big deal.

Another way to learn about Bro. Gipp is to read some of his articles,
here is a list of those on his website:
http://samgipp.com/essays/