[Biblestudent]

Originally Posted by greenbear

Hi, Biblestudent.

Of course you are absolutely correct. I'll add:

1 Timothy 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.

As you may have gathered, I am of the belief that the "Christian" churches are apostatized to a great degree. I believe that when a church gets to be a certain size, they have a large property with the incumbent expenses, they are beholden to a church board for their salary, etc. so "pastor(s)" can be swayed by interests within the church who want to control what is preached and taught. On a large denominational basis this problem is amplified. We are not in the same circumstance as was the early church in Paul's time. Denomination after denomination has fallen into apostasy. This is a personal conviction and I understand not everyone would hold this view. It is by no means wrong for a church body to pay the salaries of the elders. I just think there are certain benefits to having lay elders. If that makes me a carnal christian, so be it! Of course, christians aren't going to reorganize their church structures to suit me. Your english is so perfect I have assumed you must be an American missionary pastoring a church in the Philippines. I pray that God blesses your ministry.

Thanks, for clarifying that. Now I understand where you're coming from. But I guarantee you, my church was trying to raise an amount for the pastor's "salary" (following 1 Corinthians 9); but we decided to divide that into small "gifts" for me, for our youth pastor, for two Sunday school teachers, and one custodian/janitor who are working and/or volunteering "full time". We are of the type where the pastors can clean the church and custodians can preach and teach, but all go out soulwinning every week.

The case you mentioned is familiar to me, as there are those big denominations and conventions here; but real preachers are out there with little or zero support from the very church they pastor. Of course, they have to drive trisikad, trycycle, or taxi for their family's survival. I just thank the Lord that I don't have to do that, but churches with real preachers here need to learn to support God's servants.

(By the way, I'm Filipino. Thanks for the comment. I attribute that to our school: http://www.calvary-oton.org/ACADEMY.html )

[greenbear]

I woke up this morning knowing that the Bible doesn't have anything to say about a "critical spirit". I searched the Bible in vain for the word "critical". All I could find is "hypocritical". I remember the term "critical spirit" from attending charismatic churches and it is used by them to silence criticism of their non-scriptural teaching and practices; it's not love to point out error in their view. I would say their term "critical spirit" can be defined as spiritual discernment and faithfulness to believe God's word. It is by understanding God's word through the Holy Spirit in us that we judge according to righteous judgment.

I also see (after a brief lapse of a few hours) that we have a choice to either trust and obey God's word concerning the purpose, structure, and governance of local churches or not.

Romans 3:4 God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged.

[Samuel]

I used the term in a previous post, Critical Spirit. I am aware the charismatics, us this as a deterrent against criticism.

I might have said overly judgemental, hyper critical, or something else. That would probably have been a better term.

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Samuel

I used the term in a previous post, Critical Spirit. I am aware the charismatics, us this as a deterrent against criticism.

I might have said overly judgemental, hyper critical, or something else. That would probably have been a better term.

I wasn't criticizing your word choice at all, Samuel. I agree that bitterness is bad, but it dawned on me that what the Charismatics called a "critical spirit" is for the most part discernment and believing the Bible over their erroneous teachings and having the temerity to mention it to them.