Something else I marvel at is:

I've had a few folks get offended at my style of music (not many, though) and found out what they listened to at home was the same style or similar.

If you listen to a certain style of music, why not have some redeeming value along with it. If a song draws you to Jesus, what's evil about that?

I remember I sang a song called, "The Rapture Blues" about a man who missed the rapture. Some commotion took place in the second row of the church. I thought someone was highly offended. Come to find out that a woman came under conviction and gave her heart to Jesus. She got SAVED! What's evil about that? Was the fact it was in the "Blues" style it was somehow evil?

I see what your saying, but with that mentality you could say that someone could get saved at a rap concert as long as it had the gospel message in it. I do think that God does care about what "kind" of music you fill your life with. Because music itself does invite certain spirits along with it.

Can you give me some Biblical references? I disagree with you. Maybe you don't like rap music (and it isn't something I like too much), but somehow, I don't think that God would be against it just because it's Rap. It's a matter of personal preference.

Someone did an "interpretive dance" at a church I was at. The only problem with it is the woman was inappropriately dressed. If she would have been modestly attired, it would have been glorifying to the Lord. But, we Christians are sinners saved by grace. We all could use a little more "sanctification" in regards to our behaviour. So, applying that to the "rap music", there is a propensity for Improprieties that are the fault of the people involved.

Take tennis: somehow the standard dress is for women to wear revealing clothing. Same with track, swimming (especially swimming), ballet, etc. The problem isn't with people running, swimming, tennis and such. It is that somehow some inappropriate standards have also been applied that really aren't necessary for the activity to be done.

So, with music, the same thing has happened. Certain criteria has been heaped in with it that makes it a problem. God created music. The devil seeks to pervert it. As a Christian musician, my desire is as I stated previously. Both my wife and I dress in a manner so as to not draw attention to our bodies. We don't perform music that would cause people to have wrong desires (at least that is our goal, haven't had a problem that we were aware of).

So rap in and of itself is of no consequence.

Romans 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

I entirely agree with you Beth, about HYMNS. Many of them are very inspiring. They're like a musical bible. Or like drinking a capucino but without the side effects: It wakes you up to life and hope. I love hymns and listen to them only. Too many of the worship songs nowadays are so repetitive that you get the impression there's only 25 words in the english dictionary. Take care and have a wonderful day.

[scott]

[QUOTE=Pastor Mikie;1279]Can you give me some Biblical references? I disagree with you. Maybe you don't like rap music (and it isn't something I like too much), but somehow, I don't think that God would be against it just because it's Rap. It's a matter of personal preference.

I read this scripture with Adam Clarke's commentary following; you may not agree with it, but it is profound:

Am 6:1 Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came!
Am 6:2 Pass ye unto Calneh, and see; and from thence go ye to Hamath the great: then go down to Gath of the Philistines: be they better than these kingdoms? or their border greater than your border?
Am 6:3 Ye that put far away the evil day, and cause the seat of violence to come near;
Am 6:4 That lie upon beds of ivory, and stretch themselves upon their couches, and eat the lambs out of the flock, and the calves out of the midst of the stall;
Am 6:5 That chant to the sound of the viol, and invent to themselves instruments of musick, like David;

This was written by Adam Clarke around 1826, concerning verse 5:

And invent to themselves instruments of music, like David - See the note on 1Ch 23:5; and see especially the note on 2Ch 29:25 (note). I believe that David was not authorized by the Lord to introduce that multitude of musical instruments into the Divine worship of which we read, and I am satisfied that his conduct in this respect is most solemnly reprehended by this prophet; and I farther believe that the use of such instruments of music, in the Christian Church, is without the sanction and against the will of God; that they are subversive of the spirit of true devotion, and that they are sinful. If there was a wo to them who invented instruments of music, as did David under the law, is there no wo, no curse to them who invent them, and introduce them into the worship of God in the Christian Church? I am an old man, and an old minister; and I here declare that I never knew them productive of any good in the worship of God; and have had reason to believe that they were productive of much evil. Music, as a science, I esteem and admire: but instruments of music in the house of God I abominate and abhor. This is the abuse of music; and here I register my protest against all such corruptions in the worship of the Author of Christianity. The late venerable and most eminent divine, the Revelation John Wesley, who was a lover of music, and an elegant poet, when asked his opinion of instruments of music being introduced into the chapels of the Methodists said, in his terse and powerful manner, "I have no objection to instruments of music in our chapels, provided they are neither Heard nor Seen." I say the same, though I think the expense of purchase had better be spared.

The word הפרטים happoretim, which we render chant, and the margin quaver, signifies to dance, to skip, etc. In the sight of such a text, fiddlers, drummers, waltzers, etc., may well tremble, who perform to excite detestable passions.

When you need to go outside of Scripture to substantiate what you believe, and not just the Bible itself, that's a big problem. Since I (and many others around here) don't speak Hebrew or Greek, that offers no proof at all. The KJB says what it means and means what it says. Maybe how one understands it differs, but, you certainly don't need another book to substantiate it.

[scott]

Revangelist wrote: When you need to go outside of Scripture to substantiate what you believe, and not just the Bible itself, that's a big problem. Since I (and many others around here) don't speak Hebrew or Greek, that offers no proof at all. The KJB says what it means and means what it says. Maybe how one understands it differs, but, you certainly don't need another book to substantiate it.

Since this is Resurrection weekend, I will assume your answer was given while you were full of the love of Christ The question was regarding the CCM movement and the thread evolved into the use of it in Church Worship. I am not supporting my own beliefs, I am a Baptist minister, and we have a piano and organ in our Church, with which we sing from the Hymn Book. I thought Adam Clarkes' thoughts about music were profound, considering it was written around 1826, especially when you see where this CCM movement has gone and where it is headed. His fears that music in the wrong form would produce a fleshly emotionalism that would not be pleasing to the Lord have, in my opinion, come about with many of the "Mega Churches" and their style of "Worship". Bible reference:

Mt 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mt 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mt 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I fear many of the Mega Churches will fall into this category [not judging, I'm just looking for fruit]

I have always and always will be KJV, and I have a long story behind that, but
as far as your quote "we have a big problem when we turn to other sources, The KJ says what it means and means what it says", I would like you, under those guidelines, for you to explain to me the following verse: Deuteronomy 23:2--
Remember, no outside sources!!

I know we have the Holy Spirit to guide us in life and in study, but someone with a screw loose could take that verse and really do some damage to the Kingdom of God; I feel so blessed that I found Brandons Swordsearcher on the internet back in 1997, and I have it yet today and it is a blessing to me in helping me study to show myself approved. God bless

Deuteronomy 23:1-4 He that is wounded in the stones, or hath his privy member cut off, shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD. A bastard shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to his tenth generation shall he not enter into the congregation of the LORD. An Ammonite or Moabite shall not enter into the congregation of the LORD; even to their tenth generation shall they not enter into the congregation of the LORD for ever: Because they met you not with bread and with water in the way, when ye came forth out of Egypt; and because they hired against thee Balaam the son of Beor of Pethor of Mesopotamia, to curse thee.

It is not referring to salvation but to being allowed to enter into or work in the temple. It is interesting to note that David was the 10th or 11th generation since this time - and his great grandmother was Ruth, the Moabite.

I couldn't imagine not being able to worship in the temple if I was an OT believer - it would be like never being able to worship with believers in a local church today. Still saved - but growth would be hindered and would be starving for fellowship.

Scott, sorry about how I came across. I guess I was just stating a fact. I like to read history. I like to study church history. But, I'm not what would be considered an historian. So, I guess I didn't fully understand and responded rather dispassionately. Sorry abou that.

The church I go to does all styles of music, Hymns, worship choruses, a little of this and a little of that. Some songs I like, some I don't. But I guess that's true of anyone.

I like variety. I've been in Baptist Churches, and Pentecostal Churches and see something that is a little bothersome to me in most I've attended. But then, the church is filled with people. Without people, there wouldn't be a church. I was wondering if the Lord looks at us in a similar manner as I would look at my grandchildren. I see them get into arguments about things and have to chuckle to myself. They get all upset about things that really don't matter.

I saw a CCM magazine once and couldn't bring myself to pick it up and look at it. The picture on the front looked like a "Cosmopolitan" magazine and I walked away as quickly as I could. As far as CCM as a style of music, some of it is "plastic" sounding. Some is very provocative. Meaning, It compels me to want to worship God. Music seems to be a tremendous tool.

Anyway, I said all that really to apologize for sounding accusatory. I didn't mean to.

[scott]

Jerry, I agree with what you said and add AMEN! Revangelist, no appology necessary, we all have our moments. I enjoy reading all these threads and they certainly make you think about the Word, which is healthy. I have so many things the Lord has put on my heart about the "Mega church" and music, but one illustration in particular involved my cousin and her husband, who were married for 15 years and had 4 wonderful children, and they got "bored" with their "Old Fashioned" church [consequently where the KJV was being taught], and wanted to try a new contemporary Church. Well, they started going and voila, they "absolutely loved the music". That was the line I heard over and over. Never said anything about the preacher [of course you could probably go 6 weeks to that Church and never hear the same "preacher" twice], never heard anything about the Word they were learning, just the music. My family and I were called to Terre Haute, IN for a couple of years and I lost track, but I wasn't surprised when my Aunt called me and said to pray for my cousin--her and her husband had gotten a divorce, and as far as I know, never missed any Church ....There is something wrong with that!! I just fear satan, whom someone mentioned the verse earlier [Ezekiel 28:13], with his musical ability is trying to numb the minds of would be Christians and Christians alike with music, and they are becoming numb to the real healer and strengthener--the Word....By the way, there is a happy ending to this story that just happened---God does answer prayers [as we all know], just 2 days ago, I spoke with my Aunt and 10 years later, my cousin and her ex husband remarried [I know that sounds like a fairy tale, but the Lord is my witness!!] [I'm going to tell them NOT to go back to that same Church!! God Bless