[Luke]

Originally Posted by tkg

I didnt mean street witnessing persay, Im meaning more in a church situation. Where as not everyone who goes to a church is saved. So its more of someone you know, than a complete stranger.

You should know your church family pretty well. I know everyone in my church is saved (as far as a man can tell), except for the husband of one woman, who is not saved, but comes along to church sometimes.

You don't want to start this kind of ministry brother. Men like Paul Washer and Ray Comfort run ministries like this. They constantly call on the church to examine themselves to see if they are really saved. I call it a ministry of doubt - because they target the church (most of these men preaching these kinds of sermons are aiming them at the pentecostal new evangelical crowd, but for some reason, preach them to the fundamental crowds...) Their entire ministry is built around this idea of false converts, and winning the church to God. It's a neccesary ministry, because there are false converts, but one that should be done by the PASTOR, not the EVANGELIST. The Evangelists job is to win the WORLD to Christ, not the Church.

Originally Posted by Luke

You should know your church family pretty well. I know everyone in my church is saved (as far as a man can tell), except for the husband of one woman, who is not saved, but comes along to church sometimes.

You don't want to start this kind of ministry brother. Men like Paul Washer and Ray Comfort run ministries like this. They constantly call on the church to examine themselves to see if they are really saved. I call it a ministry of doubt - because they target the church (most of these men preaching these kinds of sermons are aiming them at the pentecostal new evangelical crowd, but for some reason, preach them to the fundamental crowds...) Their entire ministry is built around this idea of false converts, and winning the church to God. It's a neccesary ministry, because there are false converts, but one that should be done by the PASTOR, not the EVANGELIST. The Evangelists job is to win the WORLD to Christ, not the Church.

I bolded for emphasis (and unbolded yours just so people dont confused), but that was the point I was getting at, how is a man to tell. I have no intention of going around questioning everyone in my church (Its not my place and Im fairly sure about most of them), most of these are just personal thoughts. What I was trying to get at the whole time was that if you know someone well, how is it a man can tell?

[Luke]

I can tell because they say the believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as Saviour. I don't look at their works. I listen to their confession of Christ.

Ahhh, well this has all been very enlightening to me. I am as of now, downloading a good chunk of paul washers sermons and am going to compare what he says in them, to what has been said here. But thank you all for your input in the matter. I guess the thing I want to find out is more specifics of Paul talking about Lordship salvation which means I have to go thru all of it. But ill be sure to post any and all examples I find.

P.S. on a side note, Luke do you remember me from like 2 years ago? Just wondering is all.

[Luke]

Where would I remember you from? Church, or any particular forum or what?
I might do, but your name and avatar aren't familiar.

God bless

P.S. Don't be fooled by Paul Washer's highly emotional preaching. His wavery voice can be very convincing, but he isn't biblical. He misapplies verses all over the place, despite his obvious sincerity.

[stephanos]

A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

[Luke]

Originally Posted by stephanos

A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

Stephen is right. Paul Washer's messages will cause great confusion

1) Mainly because he teaches calvinism (but doesn't even apparently believe in his own calvinism at times, claiming that if he didn't witness to someone, they would have gone to hell. Seems like he changed the will of God there...)

2) He teaches Lordship Salvation
3) He stresses self examination. It's never enough to rest in Christ. It's all about "Are you holier than you were a year ago", "Go and stand next to a drunk and rejoice because you aren't like them" (those aren't actual quotes, but the second one is very close to something he said about college students and their drunkenness, and how we should rejoice because we aren't like them).

[JMWHALEN]

Originally Posted by stephanos

A young Christian should NOT be listening to Paul Washer. You should be reading your Bible for yourself and meditating upon what you've read day and night. Paul Washer is only going to confuse and decieve you with is seasoned lies. I'm not saying everything he preaches is lies, but:

Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? (1 Corinthians 5:6 KJV)

A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. (Galatians 5:9 KJV)

For Jesus' sake,
Stephen

________
Yes, stephanos,

I live in Texas. My preacher friend Mike Arnold provided me the below prize winning Chili recipe(ingredients). It is an 94.73% accurate "copy".

2 1/2 lb. lean ground chuck/ 1 lb. lean ground pork/1 c finely chopped onion/4 garlic cloves finely chopped/1 cn Budweiser beer(12 oz)/8 oz Hunt's tomato sauce/1 cn water/3 tb chili powder/3 tb ground cumin/2 tb Wyler's beef-flavored instant bouillon(or 6 cubes)/2 ts Oregano leaves/2 ts paprika/2 ts sugar/1 ts unsweetened cocoa/1/2 ts ground coriander/1/2 ts Louisiana hot sauce, to taste/1 ts flour, 1 ts cornmeal/1 tb warm water/2 ts ARSENIC

Pastor Jerry Lockhart of Berean Bible Church in New Braunfels, Texas points out that rat poison is 99.05% cornmeal, and .05% strychnine(a poisonous alkaloid). The .05% “gets the rat”. Satan’s deception is to “mix a little lie in with a whole lotta’ truth”, and the Body of Christ has bought into this deception-very "subtil"(Genesis 3:1).

"Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?" James 3:11

In Christ,

John M. Whalen

Originally Posted by Luke

Where would I remember you from? Church, or any particular forum or what?
I might do, but your name and avatar aren't familiar.

God bless

P.S. Don't be fooled by Paul Washer's highly emotional preaching. His wavery voice can be very convincing, but he isn't biblical. He misapplies verses all over the place, despite his obvious sincerity.

Old days of Game Design from the GMC.

And Stephanos, the only reason I want to in the first place is because their are a few people in my church who listen to him all the time. If there is another way I can bring up a more specific point of Pauls teaching being of Lordship salvation, and not just for the purpose of slamming it im all for it. If not me I would be grateful if someone could give me a link detailing the core of his doctrine and expounding upon why it is not biblically correct that would be great. I looked at Jesus-is-savior.com and the one I did read, which was by Tracy I think is the name, felt mean-spirited, but that could just be me.

My main concern now is for my fellow Brothers and Sisters in Christ in my church.

In Love
-Timothy

[Luke]

David Stewart doesn't host any of Tracy's work anymore (well, not much). Tracy would be in agreement with Paul Washer, except for his calvinism.