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#31
08-25-2008, 06:02 PM
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No problem brother, I was just speaking my heart and experience.
When you look at satan being described as having tabrets and pipes in Ezekiel it speaks volumes, he will use music to enslave and he has enslaved generation after generation through rebellious music like rock, reggae, Hip Hop, trance dance etc, anything secular that has young people spending more time and money on an "artist" than they do in the things of God, is simply idolatry. Notice also in another attempt to disguise the fact that satan is behind the influence of music is that fact that modern translations remove the description of him in Ezekiel as musical (I only just noticed this missing in the NIV translation when I typed in the verse to search in NIV and not KJV in Biblegateway) Ezekiel 28:13 KJV Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created (tabrets and pipes, musical) Ezekiel 28:13 NIV You were in Eden, the garden of God; every precious stone adorned you: ruby, topaz and emerald, chrysolite, onyx and jasper, sapphire, [a] turquoise and beryl. [b] Your settings and mountings [c] were made of gold; on the day you were created they were prepared. Seems like another coverup in modern translation of satans tools of influence. |
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#32
08-25-2008, 06:36 PM
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Genesis 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
God was the first to speak in Genesis. Genesis 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech. So God gave us a language. Genesis 11:6 And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Genesis 11:7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. Genesis 11:8 So the LORD scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city. So God gave us the rest of our languages. And now men are trying their best to come back to one language (english). --- and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do We are returning to the days of Noah: Genesis 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually. Josh, this is for you, feel free to add more. Renee |
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#33
08-25-2008, 07:08 PM
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I guess my point is is that we should make sure our own hands are clean before we start pointing the finger at other people and the music they listen to. Hallelujah from the heavensfor the one worthy of our continual praises, Stephen Last edited by stephanos; 08-25-2008 at 07:18 PM. |
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#34
08-25-2008, 10:53 PM
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#36
08-26-2008, 11:03 AM
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It just goes to show that if you are looking with the right heart and attitude, then even through what you think is a mistake the Holy Spirit of God will lead you into another truth. And Praise the LORD all I want is truth even if it hurts.
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#37
08-28-2008, 10:10 AM
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God deserves the praise.
Music is always a very touchy subject due to the influences we have had our whole lives. Unfortunatly, even christian music has been corupted to the point it is all about how many records they can sell, and how simular they can sound to the worlds music. We are to be a seperate people. No matter what culture you were raised in God wants us to be different than the world in which we live. Many feel that certain instruments hsould be used or not used for worship. The problem is there is this movement growing that is simular to a McDonalds chain. This Protestant movement that puts the emophasis on reaching young people by using music to make them feel good qwith no attention to scripture. Even the music is driven to bring a reaction in us rather than bringing a reaction in God. God does not automatically show up at worship service because we sing to Him. The service is to be about scripture and the music should be used to edify the preaching.
I do not know of one church that can honestly say that they do not use music to influence people. Even old time hymes can be used to pursuade. How often we gat in church and sing uplifting songs and when the invitation arrives the music is slowed down and the songs beat and words are designed to bring a response in us. Is this bad? I think if our focus is on God. the scripture clearly presented will allow the Holy Spirit to work, the prayers of the saved shoould be asking the Holy Spirit to work in lives, and the music should edify the Lord. This line in the sand as to what is right or wrong to listen to in our own time is a different issue. Personally I still deal with this. Even with "christian" music. I went to a third day concert and I find a couple of their songs really good. I left with a feeling that i was duped intl liking them. I also appreciate the work done by U2. Third day was nothing more than a copy-cat band of U2. Just putting different words in to the song. They even ended the concert by laying a few of U2's songs. They did a decent job, but This was nothing more than a U2 wanna-be band moving into the christian circle trying to make a few bucks. They do because these po-up churches sing their music with the congregation for worship every sunday. I find it offensive to take something polutted by the world and bring it into church and try using it to worship God. Many dont see the next step in this is usaully the church will then replace the old Bible with a new one to make others more comfortable. |
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#38
08-28-2008, 02:13 PM
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You raise a good point about music being used to draw young people into Church, ecumenical compromise, bring the world into Church using the worlds music and hope that the world follows, where does that line be drawn? Serving beer in the Church canteen to bring in the drinkers? Giant TV's with the latest sports game on to draw in the sport idolators?
The ecumenical Church I was attending was very much focused on "Christian Rock" (Rock is the Devils Music and always will be) drumbeats, electric baselines and guitars, people would be swaying and legs would be twitching and some would even be bobbing up and down on the spot to the beat. I didn't like this, I felt that the music was affecting people "Physically" they were "feeling" it, more time was spent in so called worship than preaching the real deal, The WORD of God. Sure the lyrics are all about Jesus, but if you look very closely at the lyrics of new "contemporary" hymns most are about what "I" feel I can do for Jesus, How "I" feel about Jesus. When worship becomes based on feelings that is dangerous ground. Read this extract about the "neutrality" of Music An intensive series of studies carried out by Dorothy Retallack of Denver, Colorado, demonstrated the effects of different kinds of music on a variety of household plants. The experiments were controlled under strict scientific conditions, and the plants were kept within large closed cabinets on wheels in which light, temperature and air were automatically regulated. Three hours a day of acid rock, played through a loudspeaker at the side of the cabinet, was found to stunt and damage squash plants, philodendrons and corn in under four weeks. Mrs Retallack played the music of the two different Denver radio stations to two groups of petunias. The radio stations were KIMN (a rock station) and KLIR (a semiclassical station). The Denver Post reported: `The petunias listening to KIMN refused to bloom. Those on KLIR developed six beautiful blooms. By the end of the second week, the KIMN petunias were LEANING AWAY from the radio and showing very erratic growth. The petunia blooms hearing KLIR were all leaning TOWARD THE SOUND. Within a month all plants exposed to rock music DIED. In another experiment, conducted over three weeks, Dorothy Retallack played the music of Led Zeppelin and Vanilla Fudge to one group of beans, squash (marrow), corn, morning glory and coleus; she also played contemporary avant-garde atonal music to a second group; and, as a control, played nothing to a third group. Within ten days, the plants exposed to Led Zeppelin and Vanilla Fudge were all LEANING AWAY FROM THE SPEAKER. After three weeks they were stunted and DYING. The beans exposed to the 'new music' leaned 15 degrees from the speaker and were found to have middle-sized roots. The plants left in silence had the longest roots and grew the highest. Further, it was discovered that plants to which placid, devotional music was played not only grew two inches taller than plants left in silence, but also leaned TOWARDS THE SPEAKER. (Tame, David The Secret Power of Music, p. 142 - 144) My advice, from my heart, is simply this, If you have lyrics of a song in your head more of the day than you have the Word of God in your head take heed! Christian Music is sung to the LORD, it does not belong in the world, nor should it sound like the world. Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts TO THE LORD. Colossians 3:16 |
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#39
09-02-2008, 09:28 PM
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Church of Chirst churches do not believe in musical instruments in worship. There have been some splits and now some off-shoot do. What I heard growing up was that the Christians sang acapella (sp) and we should to. I have to admit, when I was young, the most beautiful (and close to God) moments in worship was when the congregation was singing their souls out to an old time hymn. My favorite is still "There is a God". Gives my goose bumps. The reason they disliked pianos was becasue they were in bars and saloons in the US for so long and were identified with that segment. |
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#40
09-03-2008, 10:02 AM
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From: http://www.biblebelievers.com/david_...ch-christ.html The religious sect known as the "Church of Christ" has many peculiar and aberrant doctrines that are contrary to the word of God. It is a most deceptive and dangerous cult. Their teaching of baptismal regeneration is an age-old heresy that has damned millions to hell, and is still doing so today. The idea that they are the one, true and restored church of Jesus Christ puts them in the same league with the Mormon and Roman Catholic churches. If you are a member of this "church" or have been influenced by its teachings, we challenge you to ask your preacher the questions that follow, then get your King James Bible out, open it up, and ask the Holy Spirit to show you the TRUTH (John 16:13). If you have never been saved in the Bible sense, for heaven's sake, do not mistake being "washed in the baptistry of the church" for being washed in the blood of Christ. If you ask one of these "preachers" any of the questions in this tract, you won't get a straight answer due to their "screwball" theology. You'll have them in "hot water," "swimming in circles," trying to explain their heretical positions. They'll be "hopping all over the pond" because they can't stay too long in one spot without sinking in the mire of their false doctrines. Don't YOU wind up being baptized in the "Lake of Fire" by accepting a "waterworks" based plan of salvation and rejecting salvation by grace through faith in the finished work of Christ. (Matt. 3:11; Rev. 20:15; Eph. 2:8,9; Rom. 5:9; Rom. 11:6). Here are Questions for Campbellites 1. According to the history of the "Church of Christ," God used certain men to "restore" the New Testament Church in the early 1800's. Where was the true New Testament church before then? Jesus said that the gates of hell would not prevail against His church (Matthew 16:18). What happened to the church and where was the truth it was responsible for preaching before God restored it? 2. If a "Church of Christ" elder refuses to baptize me, will I be lost until I can find one who will? Do I need Jesus AND a Campebllite "preacher" in order to be saved? If I do, then Jesus Christ is not the only Mediator (1 Tim. 2:5) and the Holy Spirit is not the only Administrator (1 Cor. 12:13) of salvation - the "Church of Christ" preacher is necessary to salvation for he is performing a saving act on me when he baptizes me! Is this not blasphemy against Jesus Christ and the Holy Ghost? 3. If the water pipes broke and the baptistry was bone dry, would my salvation have to wait until the plumber showed up? If I were to die before then, would I go to hell? If obedience to water baptism is the means of forgiveness of sins, then I would. 4. If my past sins are forgiven when I am baptized in water, and it is possible for me to "lose my salvation" and go to hell after being baptized, then wouldn't my best chance of going to heaven be to drown in the baptistry?!! - before I had a chance to sin so as to be lost again? If I wanted to be absolutely sure of heaven, isn't that my best opportunity? 5. If as a Christian I can sin so as to "lose my salvation," just what sin or sins will place me in such danger? Is it possible to know at what point one has committed such a sin, and become lost again? Please be specific and give clear Bible references. 6. If as a Christian I can fall and "lose my salvation," is it possible to regain it? If so, how? If God "takes away" my salvation, doesn't that make Him an "Indian giver"? How could I ever know for sure that I was saved or lost? 7. After becoming a Christian, are there any sins that will put me beyond the "point of no return" so that I cannot regain salvation? What sin or sins will put me in such jeopardy, so that, after becoming a Christian, I would be doomed to hell without any recourse? Please be specific and give me clear Bible references. 8. If I committed some sin -whether in thought, word, or deed, one minute before a fatal car crash - would I go to hell if I did not have time to repent of it? And, please, don't just say that it's up to God without giving me a specific Bible reference. 9. Why does the "Church of Christ" insist that their name is scriptural when it cannot be found anywhere in the Bible? The church is referred to as the "church of God" eight (8) times in the Bible, but never is it called the "church of Christ." The verse they use is Romans 16:16, but it doesn't say "church of Christ." Where does the Bible call the church the "church of Christ"? 10. If the "Church of Christ" claims to worship God only as "authorized" by scripture because they sing only (and do not use instrumental music), then where do they get the "authority" to use hymnals, pitchpipes, pews, and indoor baptistries in their worship services? If the answer is that they are "aids to worship," where does the Bible allow for that? Where is your required authorization? If a pitchpipe can be an "aid to worship" for the song service in the "Church of Christ," then why can't a piano be an "aid to worship" for Baptists who may need more help in singing? 11. The "Church of Christ" teaches that a sinner is forgiven of sin when he is baptized in water by a Campbellite elder. Where does the Bible teach that water baptism is required in order to have one's sins forgiven? Every time the phrase "for the remission of sins" occurs it is speaking of the fact that sins have been forgiven previously! The Bible plainly teaches that the forgiveness of sins is conditioned upon repentance of sin and faith in Christ - never upon water baptism! (Matthew 3:11; Luke 24:47; Acts 3:19; Acts 5:31; Acts 10:43; Acts 20:21; Romans 1:16; Romans 4:5; et.al.) Where does the Bible teach that forgiveness of sin is linked with water baptism? When Christ made the statement in Matthew 26:28, "for the remission of sins," it had to be because they had been forgiven all through the Old Testament! Christ shed His blood because God forgave repentant and believing sinners for thousands of years before the Son of God came to "take away" sins and to redeem us and pay the sin-debt with His own precious blood. How can one say that "for the remission of sins" means 'in order to obtain' in light of the fact that God never uses the phrase in that sense? In the Old Testament God forgave sin on the basis of a blood sacrifice (Heb. 9:22) - the Old Testament saints had their sins remitted (i.e., forgiven) but they were not redeemed until Christ came and shed His blood at Calvary. Their sins were covered (Romans 4:7; Psalm 32:1), but the sinner was not cleared of his guilt (Exodus 34:7) until the Cross (Heb.10:4). Before Calvary, the sins of believers were pardoned, but they were not paid for (i.e., redeemed) until the crucifixion (see Romans 3:25 and Heb. 9:12-15). When Jesus said, "It is finished," (John 19:30), all sin - past, present and future - was paid for, and the plan of salvation was completed, so that 'whosoever believeth in Him shall receive remission of sins' (Acts 10:43). In Acts 2:38, the people were baptized because their sins were forgiven (at Calvary when Jesus said, "Father, forgive them,") and they received the blessing of forgiveness when they repented of their sin of rejecting Christ and accepted Him as their Saviour and Lord. Friend, heaven or hell depends on what you believe about this. 12. If salvation is not by works of righteousness which we have done, and baptism is a work of "righteousness," then how can water baptism be a part of salvation? (Titus 3:5; Matt. 3:16) In the Bible, we are SAVED BY GRACE, and grace does not involve human effort or merit - grace is grace and work is work! (Just read Ephesians 2:8,9 and Romans 11:6.) 13. The "Church of Christ" teaches that "obeying the Gospel" includes being baptized in water in order to be saved. If this is true, then how is it that the converts of Acts 10 were saved by faith before and without water baptism? The Bible says in Acts 5:32 that only those who obey God may receive the Holy Ghost - so what did those in Acts 10 do to obey and receive the Holy Ghost and be saved? In the light of Acts 10:34-48, Acts 11:14-18, and Acts 15:7-11, how can anyone honestly believe that water baptism is necessary to salvation? Simon Peter said their hearts were "purified by faith" (Acts 15:9) and that we are saved by the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ like they were (Acts 15:11); that is, before and without water baptism! We know that unsaved people do not receive or have the Holy Spirit (John 14:17; Romans 8:9). We know that the Holy Spirit is given only to those who have believed on Christ (John 7:39). We know that the Holy Spirit seals the believing sinner the moment he puts his faith and trust in Christ as Savior, before he is ever baptized in water (Ephesians 1:12,13). How does the warped theolgy of Campbellism explain away these clear passages of Scripture without "muddying the waters" of truth and drowning its members in eternal damnation? Other good links: http://www.biblebelievers.com/Davis1.html http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Church%20of%20Christ/church_of_christ_heresies.htm" http://www.av1611.org/jmelton/chchurch.html There are lots of sites that discuss their heresies. The problem is is that some of them also attack them for standing firmly for the KJV. Just ignore those ones. for Jesus sake, Stephen |
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