Originally Posted by tandy1650

Brother I am an ex-Marine who believes the word of God....

LOL, well that's a pretty good combination right there!
I enjoyed your testimony Tandy...

Just to be clear, we have two members on the forum with very similar user names;
TANDI with a butterfly and TANDY the former Marine...

[peopleoftheway]

The Tandy1650 is an electronic chess machine am I right ?

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

Hi Brother, thank you for your testimony


We don't turn from sin to turn to Christ, we take the filthy rags that are our life and lay them at his feet at the cross and exclaim "I cannot deal with them lord I leave it all at your cross"

Mat 1:21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

Eze 14:6 Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.

I could go on and on. You are attempting to divorce repentance from sin.

To turn from sin to turn to Christ is adding to salvation, we must take our sins TO Christ knowing full well we are dead in them for we have no power to turn from them or deal with them without him, once sins are forgiven and dealt with there will be a genuine repentance toward our sinful lives and we will strive to change those things by Gods grace and over time, not overnight. I understand to what you mean about those who fit into the "easy believism" category, but you have to be careful when and how you define "easy believism" Paul Washer, Ray Comfort, John Macarthur etc all teach that turning from sin must be done before we come to Christ.

You are implying that repentance is a work. It is no more a work than believing the gospel. God grants repentance unto salvation.

If a man was living in sin with his Girlfriend and received a Gospel tract, or heard the word of God being preached and was convicted in his heart and knew he was dead in his sin without Christ as his personal Saviour, does that man need to first go home and sort out his living arrangements before Christ will accept him? NO of course not, that change comes after salvation

The fruit of repentance comes after salvation.

I will agree with you that simply "saying a prayer" but not believing in your heart you are a guilty sinner destined for an eternal hell does not save a man, but many do feel convicted of their sins in their hearts, but they may be simple unlearned people, they have no idea of how it all is supposed to work in a Church, a Pastor may tell them they need to say a prayer or follow an alter call, but if the first step toward Christ has been made in their hearts, they are saved

Unless a man understands that he has sinned against a holy God he will not be saved unless he repents and believes the gospel. An unsaved religious will have no desire to turn from sin.

Romans 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Acts 8:37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

Amen. It is a heart belief not a mental assent!

Originally Posted by peopleoftheway

The Tandy1650 is an electronic chess machine am I right ?

Absolutely. That is the first chess computer I ever bought. I used to play in chess tournaments.

[Luke]

Tandy,

When I was saved, it was also by Jack Chick's tract "This was your life". I've never responded to an altar call for salvation. You'll notice if you read the thread that I was in disagreement with the OP about Jack Chick teaching lordship salvation.

Having said that though, despite being convicted of sin, I still sin. In fact, I struggle with sin habitually.

So when someone comes along saying that simple faith in Christ won't cut the mustard, and that one must turn from sins to be saved, I, a poor struggler, get very upset at the hopeless situation I appear to be in.

On the one hand, I cry out to God for deliverance from sin daily. And yet I still commit it. According to popular preachers today (Washer, Comfort & MacArthur), the evidence is against me. According to them, I am not in obedient submission to God's laws.

Now, someone like you might say that I am not saved. But what would I have to do to be saved in your books.. stop sinning? that's make my salvation based on works. Would I have to be convicted of sin? Well, I already am, and I hate it. So I am stuck in this middle ground where I believe on Christ, but I struggle with sin, want to stop sinning, and doubt my salvation. I never prayed any "prayer of salvation". I never answered an altar call. As a young anglican man of 19, I read a gospel tract that showed me my real condition and believed on Jesus Christ.

And now, I don't even know if I am saved anymore (I don't mean I lost it. I mean I don't KNOW anymore. I did know at one stage. I thought I did anyway). Not because of you. But because the simple belief I thought was enough is not enough anymore according to half of Christianity... I don't know if I am saved and have God's grace to continue to overcome sin. So how can I do it? Pray for repentance? I've prayed and prayed and prayed that God would repent me. That God would turn my heart to him from sin. I've prayed and prayed for assurance and got none. I've prayed to know whether I am saved or not and got no answer.

All I can do is believe, but apparently that's not even enough anymore.

I can't see myself as lost, because I believe on Jesus Christ as Saviour. I can't see myself as saved, because there is sin in my life that I want to quit, but struggle with. So what do I do? I'm either lost or saved.. I'm not in the middle, I know that.

And then I see you tandy, coming along, using a heap of terms I am familiar with... mental assent, head knowledge, using the word reprobates in the way you have, saying that God "grants" repentance unto life (I know it's in the Bible, but the verse you used was referring to the gentiles as a whole. Not all of them repented. He also gave the jews repentance (Acts 5:31). I've seen your type before. Other men's experiences don't match yours so you doubt their salvation like you doubted your own..

I am upset, concerned over my condition, and I am sorry if I am responding poorly to you.

[peopleoftheway]

So when someone comes along saying that simple faith in Christ won't cut the mustard, and that one must turn from sins to be saved, I, a poor struggler, get very upset at the hopeless situation I appear to be in

I do too
In fact I actually feel physically sick when I think about it.
I backslid for a lot of years after being saved very young ( When I was 10) I knew I was wrong living like the world and I ALWAYS felt guilty until life just got so bad that I couldn't cope anymore, I just couldn't go on living like I was, so I took it ALL to the Cross and asked My Lord and Saviour to free me from the burden of my sinful ways and let me live for him, asked him for the strength and courage to walk with him in all my ways and for the strength and faith to change, I was heavy Brother, real heavy and this verse just made me weep bitterly and made me realise I only had to go to Jesus

Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.

I struggle daily and that change is not overnight, I pray forgiveness for my sins every single night before I ask of anything in prayer because I am certain I have sinned in some way, I see sin now like a dirty great big stain on my life I want to change and I am, but it takes time, humility, patience, longsuffering, tears, prayers, more tears, more prayers and I just leave it all at the cross every night. Brother Luke I love you in the Lord so let me tell you this and let no man ever rob you of assurance ever again, The greatest preacher aside from the Lord Jesus Christ said this, and I want you to read and reflect on these words and the Power they can bring into your life.

2 Corinthians 12:7 And lest I should be exalted above measure through the abundance of the revelations, there was given to me a thorn in the flesh, the messenger of Satan to buffet me, lest I should be exalted above measure.
2 Corinthians 12:8 For this thing I besought the Lord thrice, that it might depart from me.
2 Corinthians 12:9 And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.


If you are feeling the way you are feeling Brother fully aware of the sin in your life and struggling daily as I am also, the Lord is working through you the Lords strength is being made perfect in your weakness
how amazing is that!

Hebrews 12:6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.

The Lord is preparing you Brother, accept that with tears and Joy and assurance in your heart

God Bless you and email me anytime day or night and we can talk.

[Luke]

Bro, I can't cry anymore. I just can't. I've done enough weeping and crying over this. In regards to repentance, I've got every criteria for every definition of repentance there is. I've wept, I am sorry for my sins, I am willing to turn from them, I don't want to sin again etc etc..

And that is what concerns me.. maybe my heart is so hard that it cannot cry anymore. I have to force myself to cry, and then it becomes about me...

Originally Posted by Luke

Tandy,

When I was saved, it was also by Jack Chick's tract "This was your life". I've never responded to an altar call for salvation. You'll notice if you read the thread that I was in disagreement with the OP about Jack Chick teaching lordship salvation.

Having said that though, despite being convicted of sin, I still sin. In fact, I struggle with sin habitually.

So when someone comes along saying that simple faith in Christ won't cut the mustard, and that one must turn from sins to be saved, I, a poor struggler, get very upset at the hopeless situation I appear to be in.

On the one hand, I cry out to God for deliverance from sin daily. And yet I still commit it. According to popular preachers today (Washer, Comfort & MacArthur), the evidence is against me. According to them, I am not in obedient submission to God's laws.

Now, someone like you might say that I am not saved. But what would I have to do to be saved in your books.. stop sinning? that's make my salvation based on works. Would I have to be convicted of sin? Well, I already am, and I hate it. So I am stuck in this middle ground where I believe on Christ, but I struggle with sin, want to stop sinning, and doubt my salvation. I never prayed any "prayer of salvation". I never answered an altar call. As a young anglican man of 19, I read a gospel tract that showed me my real condition and believed on Jesus Christ.

And now, I don't even know if I am saved anymore (I don't mean I lost it. I mean I don't KNOW anymore. I did know at one stage. I thought I did anyway). Not because of you. But because the simple belief I thought was enough is not enough anymore according to half of Christianity... I don't know if I am saved and have God's grace to continue to overcome sin. So how can I do it? Pray for repentance? I've prayed and prayed and prayed that God would repent me. That God would turn my heart to him from sin. I've prayed and prayed for assurance and got none. I've prayed to know whether I am saved or not and got no answer.

All I can do is believe, but apparently that's not even enough anymore.

I can't see myself as lost, because I believe on Jesus Christ as Saviour. I can't see myself as saved, because there is sin in my life that I want to quit, but struggle with. So what do I do? I'm either lost or saved.. I'm not in the middle, I know that.

And then I see you tandy, coming along, using a heap of terms I am familiar with... mental assent, head knowledge, using the word reprobates in the way you have, saying that God "grants" repentance unto life (I know it's in the Bible, but the verse you used was referring to the gentiles as a whole. Not all of them repented. He also gave the jews repentance (Acts 5:31). I've seen your type before. Other men's experiences don't match yours so you doubt their salvation like you doubted your own..

I am upset, concerned over my condition, and I am sorry if I am responding poorly to you.

My dear brother I don't doubt your salvation one bit. That is between you and the Lord. It isn't unusual to struggle over sin.

Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,

Look what the apostle Paul said.

Rom 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
Rom 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
Rom 7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
Rom 7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
Rom 7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
Rom 7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
Rom 7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
Rom 7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man:
Rom 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
Rom 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Listen to what George Whitefield said:

"After we are renewed, yet we are renewed but in part, indwelling sin continues in us, there is a mixture of corruption in every one of our duties; so that after we are converted, were Jesus Christ only to accept us according to our work, our works would damn us, for we cannot put up a prayer but it is far from perfection which the moral Law requireth I do not know what you may think, but I can say that I cannot pray but I sin; I cannot preach to you others but I sin; I can do nothing without sin; and, as one expresseth it,my repentance wants to be repented of, and my tears to be washed in the precious blood of my dear Redeemer."

I don't base someone else salvation on my personal experience. All I know is that the night I called out to God to forgive me and save me for Jesus sake the doubts vanished and the Holy Spirit bore witness that I was a child of God. I have struggles with sin just like you do but God changed my heart that night and gave me new desires that I can't explain. If you have a desire to live for the Lord I see no reason for your doubts. You have probably read the following illustration but it is true.

There once was a man who was traveling on foot through a snowstorm in a strange country. He had to get to a certain town by nightfall and was somewhat perturbed when he came to an ice-covered river. How thick was the ice? Could he trust it to hold him? He began crawling on the ice on his stomach, inch-by-inch, tapping with his fingers. Sweat poured from his forehead. He was filled with the fear that at any moment he could plunge to an icy death.

An hour later, he had progressed only about 40 feet. He suddenly stopped crawling. He could hear singing! He turned his head to see a horse and cart, laden with people. The driver was singing at the top of his voice as he drove his cart across the ice. The driver knew that lake was solid ice and his faith was such that he had total confidence, with not an ounce of fear. Such are the solid promises of God.

[peopleoftheway]

Tears of Joy Brother , tears of Joy...they will come I know they will, the Lord is working through you, the devil is working his hardest to cause believers to doubt, because he cannot "unsave" them so his next best attack is to cause us to "doubt" as he knows his days are numbered. You are battered and bruised and bleeding, lying by the roadside and people are passing you by and pointing at you and wagging their fingers and shaking their heads, If I could Bro I would throw you over my shoulder and tend your wounds and set you down somewhere to heal. We are weak Bro, these bodies we drag around are flesh and infirmity, but one day soon Please God soon our weak battered weary fleshy bodies we will be raised in power

1 Corinthians 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

I am certain that one day soon the Lord will humble you as to his purpose for you, and the trial you are so apparently undergoing, and then Brother those tears of Joy will flow freely. Keep your eyes fixed Bro

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

You have a Good heart Brother, the Lord isn't looking at your mind, hes looking at your heart


Eph*6:10 ¶ Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.
Eph*6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.
Eph*6:12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
Eph*6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.
Eph*6:14 Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness;
Eph*6:15 And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace;
Eph*6:16 Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.
Eph*6:17 And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:
Eph*6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

[Gord]

Originally Posted by Luke

Bro, I can't cry anymore. I just can't. I've done enough weeping and crying over this. In regards to repentance, I've got every criteria for every definition of repentance there is. I've wept, I am sorry for my sins, I am willing to turn from them, I don't want to sin again etc etc..

And that is what concerns me.. maybe my heart is so hard that it cannot cry anymore. I have to force myself to cry, and then it becomes about me...

Perhaps what C.W.Ruth had to say in ENTIRE SANCTIFICATION EXPLAINED may be of help, it was to me.

"THAT "SOMETHING"

"I knew Jesus and He was precious to my soul; but I found something within that would not be sweet, and patient and kind; I did what I could to keep it down, but it was there; I besought Jesus to do something for me, and when I gave Him my will He came in, and took out all that would not be sweet and patient and kind, and then He shut the door." Thus testifies George Fox, the founder of the Society of Friends, more than two centuries ago. After he "knew Jesus" there was still "something within" which was antagonistic to the spiritual life implanted; nor was this experience peculiar to him alone.

Such is indeed the experience of every newborn and truly regenerated soul. While he may not understand the subject of entire sanctification, and perhaps never have heard of the "second blessing," yet a young convert seldom goes three months in the new found experience until he becomes painfully conscious that there remains a "something within" that hinders, and retards his spiritual progress, and often becomes a source of much distress.

The manifestations of that "something" vary, but frequently the first showing of it is in a man-fearing spirit, or anger, or a disposition to doubt, or an unforgiving spirit, etc. Then comes frequently the temptation, that perhaps, after all there had not been a true conversion or these things would not manifest themselves, and because they had not been properly instructed, many have wearied of the conflict and struggle and have cast away their confidence.

The Bible name for that "something" is "the carnal mind" which "is enmity against God: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be (Rom_8:7). Paul said of the Corinthians, "I thank my God always on your behalf, for the grace of God which is given you by Jesus Christ," and said, because they were "babes in Christ," "I have fed you with milk," "ye are yet carnal," thus showing that the carnal mind is not eradicated in conversion, but still continues in those who are "in Christ" for a "babe in Christ" is just as certainly "in Christ" as an adult in Christ is in Christ.

Then again the Bible speaks of that "something" as "the flesh;" "The flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh and these are contrary the one to the other, so that ye cannot do the things that ye would" (Gal_5:17). Here the dual nature is clearly set forth, and the inward conflict indicated. While the man has "the Spirit" (which would not apply to a sinner) he also has a something antagonistic to the Spirit, called here "the flesh." But in Gal_5:24, we read, "And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh," showing that the divine process for that "something" is not pardon, nor suppression, but crucifixion, which signifies that there is something to die and thus to be destroyed.

Other names given in the Bible for that "something" are, "sin that dwelleth in me," "the law of sin," "the body of this death," "the sin which doth so easily beset," "the sin of the world," "the body of sin," "our old man," etc., all of which have reference to that "something within" remaining after we are converted; in common parlance it is called "inbred sin," "depravity," "our evil nature," "original sin," our "Adamic nature," etc. All of these terms are synonymous, and refer to this identical "something within" which is the common heritage of every child of Adam. God's method and purpose is to "crucify" and "destroy" that something -- "our old man" -- so that we are "dead indeed unto sin." The sins committed may be pardoned, but this "something" cannot be pardoned for the simple reason we did not commit the same; it was born in us, and as the Anglican Confession says, "This infection of nature doth remain, yea, even in them that have been regenerated." But, thank God, there is power in Jesus' blood to eliminate and destroy it. "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin" (Rom_6:6). This deliverance is what Mr. Wesley termed "the second blessing, properly so called." This is sanctification, and is the privilege of every believer, as pardon is the privilege of every penitent sinner.

The book is worth reading, and if you are a STEP book fan there are various places on the internet to get it. All new knowledge is part of our growth, so don't stop looking, the answer will be shown to you the

Act 2:33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.