Originally Posted by stephanos

I do not believe God will bless America as a nation. America has turned its back on God.

About half have turned their back on God.
But I'm not sure they ever really were facing God to begin with.

Originally Posted by stephanos

It has gone from being a post-Christian nation to an anti-Christian nation.

You think so? I have freedom to share the Gospel with any of my neighbors today. Bible study in my home, no problem. Handing out tracts on a daily basis, in the airport, the sidewalk, I can buy radio and television spots, heck I can buy a billboard if I want to. Some of us have obviously never lived in an anti-Christian nation. Please read:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...inst_chri.html

Originally Posted by stephanos

The only options we Christians have in response to this wicked nation is to pray without ceasing and to continue to hold our ground firmly on the KJB.

We are the wicked nation.
Us. You. Me. Them.
People. The wheat, the chaff.
You are correct, praying is good, and we can also win souls and put better politicians in office too, who will influence the laws. God gave us the freedom and the power of the Gospel to make change in people's lives and secure men's souls for eternity. Losing our vision, now that is a problem. But I do not believe America is beyond God's blessings. To the contrary, I think it is only his blessings and mercy which are keeping us from becoming a nuclear fireball right now.

"If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chron. 7:13-14

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

About half have turned their back on God.
But I'm not sure they ever really were facing God to begin with.



You think so? I have freedom to share the Gospel with any of my neighbors today. Bible study in my home, no problem. Handing out tracts on a daily basis, in the airport, the sidewalk, I can buy radio and television spots, heck I can buy a billboard if I want to. Some of us have obviously never lived in an anti-Christian nation. Please read:
http://www.americanthinker.com/2007/...inst_chri.html

I believe that we are just now entering this new Anti-Christian era (I think the post-Christian era began in 1880 and then in the 1980's we started seing signs that the post-Christian era was ending and the new anti-Christian attitutude among people was beginning.). Those freedoms you are talking about cannot last. EVERY dispensation ends with apostacy, why should it be different in this one?



We are the wicked nation.
Us. You. Me. Them.
People. The wheat, the chaff.
You are correct, praying is good, and we can also win souls and put better politicians in office too, who will influence the laws. God gave us the freedom and the power of the Gospel to make change in people's lives and secure men's souls for eternity. Losing our vision, now that is a problem. But I do not believe America is beyond God's blessings. To the contrary, I think it is only his blessings and mercy which are keeping us from becoming a nuclear fireball right now.

"If I shut up heaven that there be no rain, or if I command the locusts to devour the land, or if I send pestilence among my people; If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land." 2 Chron. 7:13-14

This a promise for the nation of Israel.

"Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool." Isaiah 1:18

Do you think you will convince God to change His mind about the great apostasy that sweeps across this world? Do you think the world wide economic crisis (yes, brother the whole world is feeling the crunch) is just a coincedence? Or could it be that the world is being prepared for the one to come, the one the world will look to as their "Answers Man" for all the tribulation this world is about to go through?

My position doesn't change in this matter. Perhaps in small rural communities accross America one can still feel like America is the nation it once used to be, but where I come from everything has changed. I could talk all night about the apostasy I see in my community of 70+ thousand. I could tell you how I could go into the Hastings bookstore and literally throw out thousands of books in the "Christian" section (likely every single one of them) and not feel at all concerned about one of them being worth reading. I could telll you all the conversations I've had with "Christians" about the current condition of the Christian faith. No, brother, America is not the same. Also, I don't even believe America will have revival either. You cannot force revival on a land by overthrowing the current government. Thomas Müntzer tried that, it doesn't work. Prophesy must be fulfilled, and our nation isn't even mentioned in it. "Assimilate or dissintegrate" will be the motto of the future.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Originally Posted by stephanos

My position doesn't change in this matter. Perhaps in small rural communities accross America one can still feel like America is the nation it once used to be, but where I come from everything has changed. I could talk all night about the apostasy I see in my community of 70+ thousand. I could tell you how I could go into the Hastings bookstore and literally throw out thousands of books in the "Christian" section (likely every single one of them) and not feel at all concerned about one of them being worth reading. I could telll you all the conversations I've had with "Christians" about the current condition of the Christian faith. No, brother, America is not the same. Also, I don't even believe America will have revival either. You cannot force revival on a land by overthrowing the current government. Thomas Müntzer tried that, it doesn't work. Prophesy must be fulfilled, and our nation isn't even mentioned in it. "Assimilate or dissintegrate" will be the motto of the future.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Brother Stephen, on this point I must kindly disagree with you. Yes I understand that the state of America is a sad thing. I live in Chicago and go street witnessing there, and it gets worse all the time. But you should never lose hope, every night I pray for revival, I pray for the Holy Spirit to pour itself out onto this nation. I don't mean to sound rude in any way or challenge you, but from what Im getting out of your post it makes witnessing sound worthless, why not just sit back and let what happens, happens. We should be on our knees every night and on the street every chance we get, You never know, America might not be included in the Bible because we have a huge revival and the Antichrist decideds to wipe America off the map

Edit: If you dont believe, how can you ever expect it to happen.

Your Brother in Christ,
-Timothy

Stephen, I feel your pain.
I never stated America has not changed brother.
The evidence is everywhere.
Still, I do not believe we are anti-Christian (yet) or that America is beyond God's blessings. I think it is only his blessings and mercy which are keeping us from terrible destruction, and we all need to be thankful to Him every day.

I do agree with your point on the financial crisis, I think we are seeing how easily it will be for the AntiChrist to take over the monetary system, and we could be in for more chastisement as God's people.
Did you get the book on the Nephilim?

[Here Am I]

Originally Posted by stephanos

My position doesn't change in this matter. Perhaps in small rural communities accross America one can still feel like America is the nation it once used to be, but where I come from everything has changed. I could talk all night about the apostasy I see in my community of 70+ thousand. I could tell you how I could go into the Hastings bookstore and literally throw out thousands of books in the "Christian" section (likely every single one of them) and not feel at all concerned about one of them being worth reading. I could telll you all the conversations I've had with "Christians" about the current condition of the Christian faith. No, brother, America is not the same. Also, I don't even believe America will have revival either. You cannot force revival on a land by overthrowing the current government. Thomas Müntzer tried that, it doesn't work. Prophesy must be fulfilled, and our nation isn't even mentioned in it. "Assimilate or dissintegrate" will be the motto of the future.

Amen, brother. Well said.

What country that was headed into apostasy has turned back and regained its previous glory?

And fwiw, I am not a part of this wicked nation. Yes, I am wicked, and sinful, but I do not belong here, this world is not my home.

I do not pray for this country, but for its leaders.

I do not pray for revival, I pray for God's will to be done, whatever it may be.

"Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Originally Posted by stephanos

It is good to pray for the Christians that find themselves in tribulation (remember that all who will live righteously in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution) but don't think for a second that because we're Christians everything will be just peachy. Now, that being said, I don't think the wrath of God is upon us. We may find ourselves suffering collateral damage (just look at California right now! I can just imagine an Angel of the Lord fanning those flames!) but that doesn't mean God is punishing His remnant.

So like VR hinted at, I do not believe God will bless America as a nation. America has turned its back on God. It has gone from being a post-Christian nation to an anti-Christian nation. The only options we Christians have in response to this wicked nation is to pray without ceasing and to continue to hold our ground firmly on the KJB.

Yes, that's right. I don't think that the wrath of God has descended on us, either; I believe - - - and this might be even more horrible - - - that He has simply removed His hand from our nation. He has "given us up," just as He did the Sodomites in Romans 1.

I also agree that 2 Chron. 7:13-14 is certainly not a promise to Americans; Americans are not "His people, which are called by His Name." That's a very popular verse, but, when applied to the United States, it is taken completely out of context.

By the way, TE, I think you've misunderstood me. I never claimed that America was a Christian nation, or that our founders were Christians; they obviously weren't.

His ultimate blessing of "the remnant" will be His standard operating procedure: He'll get us out of here!

I say that, of course, with apologies to the truly persecuted brethren around the world, who have suffered (and are suffering) agonies that American Christians couldn't tolerate for five minutes.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by tkg

Brother Stephen, on this point I must kindly disagree with you. Yes I understand that the state of America is a sad thing. I live in Chicago and go street witnessing there, and it gets worse all the time. But you should never lose hope, every night I pray for revival, I pray for the Holy Spirit to pour itself out onto this nation. I don't mean to sound rude in any way or challenge you, but from what Im getting out of your post it makes witnessing sound worthless, why not just sit back and let what happens, happens. We should be on our knees every night and on the street every chance we get, You never know, America might not be included in the Bible because we have a huge revival and the Antichrist decideds to wipe America off the map

Edit: If you dont believe, how can you ever expect it to happen.

Your Brother in Christ,
-Timothy

I haven't given up hope. I still believe that there are people to see saved, and that it is my job to reach them by boldly proclaiming the glad tidings of the Grace of God! I will preach the Word, and stand on the Book till I die or am called home (but I repeat myself ^_^).

I also like your positive outlook. It sure would be nice to see America turn to God again, but I just don't forsee that happening. I know there is a remnant here in the States, and I know that there are souls to be seen added to that remnant. But as a whole America is not doing good. And I'm also starting to see signs that this is a worldwide thing. Although the Philippines sure seems like it's seing revival which is amazing and exciting. I've heard from so many brothers here on these forums and I've met missionaries from there that talk about all the souls coming to Christ, and the churches that are being planted and grown. Really exciting stuff.

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Stephen, I feel your pain.
I never stated America has not changed brother.
The evidence is everywhere.
Still, I do not believe we are anti-Christian (yet) or that America is beyond God's blessings. I think it is only his blessings and mercy which are keeping us from terrible destruction, and we all need to be thankful to Him every day.

I do agree with your point on the financial crisis, I think we are seeing how easily it will be for the AntiChrist to take over the monetary system, and we could be in for more chastisement as God's people.
Did you get the book on the Nephilim?

I GOT IT TONIGHT! ^_^ This is going to be a very interesting read, but I can already see from the paging through it I've done already that he uses Enoch a lot. I'm still not sure what to think of Enoch.

I also wanted to add something here concerning blessings. I do believe that God is well able to use America for good, and perhaps He might just bless the nation to further some future political situation that I don't forsee (being a mere man and all ). I don't think it's a waste to pray for revival and blessings. But the signs of the times are showing in greater frequency and I wouldn't count on America as a nation repenting of its rejection of Jesus Christ.

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Amen, brother. Well said.

What country that was headed into apostasy has turned back and regained its previous glory?

And fwiw, I am not a part of this wicked nation. Yes, I am wicked, and sinful, but I do not belong here, this world is not my home.

I do not pray for this country, but for its leaders.

I do not pray for revival, I pray for God's will to be done, whatever it may be.

"Even so, come, Lord Jesus."

Amen, this is what I pray for as well.

Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride

Yes, that's right. I don't think that the wrath of God has descended on us, either; I believe - - - and this might be even more horrible - - - that He has simply removed His hand from our nation. He has "given us up," just as He did the Sodomites in Romans 1.

I also agree that 2 Chron. 7:13-14 is certainly not a promise to Americans; Americans are not "His people, which are called by His Name." That's a very popular verse, but, when applied to the United States, it is taken completely out of context.

By the way, TE, I think you've misunderstood me. I never claimed that America was a Christian nation, or that our founders were Christians; they obviously weren't.

His ultimate blessing of "the remnant" will be His standard operating procedure: He'll get us out of here! hit the proverbial nail on the head!

I say that, of course, with apologies to the truly persecuted brethren around the world, who have suffered (and are suffering) agonies that American Christians couldn't tolerate for five minutes.

This also is true. I myself wonder how many of America's early "politicians" (for a lack of a better term, since founding fathers could include those that weren't involved in policy making, but were very much so a part of this nations foundation) were truly Christian. It is clear that they held Judeo-Christian values in high regard, but I don't think they were concerned about truly preserving those values.

Also, it is true that there are Christians out there truly suffering persecution for their profession of faith. I never forget these brothers and sisters that prove their faith with their lives.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Originally Posted by Vendetta Ride

I also agree that 2 Chron. 7:13-14 is certainly not a promise to Americans; Americans are not "His people, which are called by His Name." That's a very popular verse, but, when applied to the United States, it is taken completely out of context.

I'm not applying it to the United States.
I'm applying the principle to people. His people.
And, I think God has people in America.
They are not all his people, but many are.

Originally Posted by stephanos

I also wanted to add something here concerning blessings. I do believe that God is well able to use America for good, and perhaps He might just bless the nation to further some future political situation that I don't forsee...

Correct Stephen, He is able to bless whoever He wants. To be clear, He can also chastise his children. I'm sorry to see some of us believe God has removed his hand from our nation. If he did that, I think all of us would be in for a rude awakening. I can certainly understand anyone saying that, it certainly seems dark at times. But I feel like God continues to bless America, even today. I see God's blessings everywhere, every day. I think it is only his blessings and mercy which have kept us free and safe so far. People have no idea how much worse it could be without God's love and blessings. Maybe it's a case of seeing the glass half full vs. half empty, lol...

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Correct Stephen, He is able to bless whoever He wants. To be clear, He can also chastise his children. I'm sorry to see some of us believe God has removed his hand from our nation. If he did that, I think all of us would be in for a rude awakening. I can certainly understand anyone saying that, it certainly seems dark at times. But I feel like God continues to bless America, even today. I see God's blessings everywhere, every day. I think it is only his blessings and mercy which have kept us free and safe so far. People have no idea how much worse it could be without God's love and blessings. Maybe it's a case of seeing the glass half full vs. half empty, lol...

I just found a good link the other day which I'd been avoiding on kjv1611. But when I read it I was really suprised, and on particular point they made fits here quite well.

11. The spiritual condition of the United States is shot. God cannot bless any nation for living like many of the citizens of the Unites States live. Any blessing that this country still enjoys is the result of "credit" given this nation by God when it still believed the Bible and feared God, by a bunch of saints who are still praying for God’s mercy and are living right and putting out the Gospel, and by God’s purposes for the United States.

http://www.kjv1611.org/war.htm

Now, I don't believe God 'cannot' bless us, but I think that it would be out of character for Him to do so.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

Haha, yeah I have read that page many times...
Ruckman and the military... oh boy, I can remember we were laughing with Bro. Ruckman the last time he preached, he was showing us all the ways to kill a man with his bare hands... I think some of the people in the church were kind of freaked out, but we were loving every minute of it... he was talking about gouging out eyeballs, and the proper way to insert a bayonet between the ribs, and I think a few of the beloved were starting to turn green... it was quite a sermon.

I'll stick to my guns on this. I think God is blessing us (and chastising us) even now...