Love is like prophets of old, such as Jeremiah. They loved their people.
This is one thing not so obvious when studying prophets of old, but once alerted to the fact, one sees it greatly how much prophets loved their people.

Jeremiah was told by God that those who fled to Egypt would die. Although, Jeremiah was forced to go to Egypt and did die consequently, he could have beat feet out of dodge long before then, but he did not, knowing his fate, he did not abandon his people that he loved.

Jeremiah by world's standards would be deemed as the most unsuccessful man ever alive, possibly. What a loser, most would probably conclude.
But to God, oh to God, he was the biggest success...for he was his servant.

In this life, it does not matter if we lose or fail, but if we are a servant of God.

I want to rightly divide His Word and use it effectively. And I see from this topic (that I started) that I need to firmly use Scripture to support my words more, and that this is indeed important. For that I am very sorry, and I realize that I have offended people by what I said, and I am sorry about that too. I hope that you will find that I my words here are in hopes of helping people to be more careful about using all of Scripture and not just cut and paste Scripture to suit self.
The Law was made for the Lawless, and people trying to change the Law are indeed self-pleasing. In the same way, I truly believe that Scripture verses can be cut and pasted to the point of idolatry, which is about "self".
Paul said to Timothy to guard the treasure.
Is not the King James Bible God's Word to treasure in its entirety?

[atlas]

Doxa,

If anyone was offended you are not to blame.

Ps. 119:165 Great peace have they which love thy law: and nothing shall offend them.

I do not get offended much anymore. Nor should other folks. Many people get offended very easy nowadays. This is very sad. We all need to read and try to live by Ps. 119:165.




Atlas

[Forrest]

No offense here, either. By the way, if you would like to read some more an love, I wrote a booklet on the subject with lots of scripture. It's free.

http://www.christdirected.com/2008/0...ildish-things/

[George]

Originally Posted by Here Am I

Doxa:

I'm new here, and am not sure if you are referring to me, as I do like to use lots of Scripture when explaining my position.

I keep in mind the example Jesus set, using Scripture to refute what the Pharisees and scribes (and even Satan!) would say, often saying "Have you not read..?" or "It is written..."

Paul did the same thing, using Scripture to prove his point.

If someone disagrees with my position, they are welcome to show me, from God's word, why they believe what they believe, and why they think that I am mistaken.

Aloha sister Here I Am,

Don't worry or fret sister - Doxa is not referring to you or Steve (POTW). I'm sure she is referring to me and the Post I made (AV1611 Forums > Doctrine > Salvation = Faith + Works? > Page 3 > Post #22) in reference to some comments she made on the Forum.

I am not going to hang up my SWORD for some Humanistic "Bean Bag" or "Electronic Tazer"! God gave us only ONE Offensive Weapon, and if Doxa wants to object to my using it, that's her privilege. If her husband wants to "dismiss" all contending for the faith (with the Sword of the Spirit) as "Sword Wars", a waste of time, or divisive, that's his privilege. But if we have come to the place and time where "plain talk" is considered divisive or using the Scriptures in bolstering one's position is "UNFAIR" - that's another thing altogether.

This kind of argument only bolsters my point about just how far Humanistic Psychiatry and Psychology has infiltrated the "thinking" of Christians today. There is no "NICE" way to point out continual error. We are warned in the Holy Scriptures against tolerating just a little bit of "leaven".

1 Corinthians 5:6 Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump?
7 Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

Galatians 5:9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump.

Are we to countenance error and false doctrine in order to "get along"? I trow not!

Ephesians 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.
8 For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light:
9 (For the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth
10 Proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.
11 And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them.
12 For it is a shame even to speak of those things which are done of them in secret.
13 But all things that are reproved are made manifest by the light: for whatsoever doth make manifest is light.
14 Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.
15 See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise,
16 Redeeming the time, because the days are evil.

Not everyone who comes to this Forum comes for the fellowship, or to edify, or to be edified. Some Christians that come to this Forum are "novices" in the Scriptures (and have little or no idea about what they are talking about) and, more often than not, their lives are ruled by "feelings" and personal "opinion" - rather than by the Holy Scriptures :

Hebrews 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.
13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe.
14 But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.

As a matter of fact - Not everyone who comes to this Forum is a Christian. There are false "prophets"; false teachers; and false brethren, and we must be beware of them. For it is they who spread false doctrine; leaven; and division - not those of us who are sincerely seeking the truth of God's word and who are earnestly contending for the faith!

I for one, am not going to allow Doxa to hang a "guilt trip" on me, just because her "feelings" get "hurt" by PLAIN TALK. I will not allow the world (or well-meaning Christians) muzzle me, just because they "feel uncomfortable" with the way I express myself.

The Lord Jesus Christ never "beat around the bush" with false doctrine or false teachers. Peter, James, John, and Paul were never "mealy mouthed" about error, leaven, false teachings, or false doctrine. The Apostle Paul said we are to "Follow" him:

Philippians 3:17 Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample.

2 Thessalonians 3:7 For yourselves know how ye ought to follow us: for we behaved not ourselves disorderly among you;

2 Thessalonians 3:9 Not because we have not power, but to make ourselves an ensample unto you to follow us.

1 Timothy 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.
16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.

The apostle Paul never once "shirked" his duty to defend sound doctrine (regardless of how the brethren "felt" about it.), and since he is to be my "pattern" and "example" and not some "nice", "sweet", "loving", "non-judgmental" modern pastor or preacher, I am determined to follow him (come what may). Since Paul is to be my "pattern", I am going to obey his teaching and not some Humanistic "drivel" that proceeds out of the mouth of so many Christians today.

Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,
8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

I could have gone through each and every one of Doxa's latest Posts and pointed out the faulty thinking and error in what she has said, instead (just in case anyone thinks that I'm being too "harsh") I would ask you to review her last few Posts (or all of them - if your inclined) and see how often she inserts her own "private opinion" into the mix. Who is this woman who is "lecturing" us on LOVE; and rightly dividing; and on Christian conduct; etc.; etc.; etc.; anyway? {Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?}

Whatever a person "thinks", or "feels", is of no concern of mine. I want to know: WHAT SAITH THE SCRIPTURE! I want to know what God has to say about an issue - there are enough "opinions" out there that have literally filled thousands of books.

I am not to live by man's (or woman's) words - I am to live by God's words. [Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.]. I refuse to "temper" my speech in order to please someone who relegates the words of God to only those things that they personally "feel" they apply to, and who dismisses any other use of them to "cutting" and "pasting" to "suit oneself".

The word of God can have very little effect on someone who lightly "dismisses" any of them that they don't "like" or "agree" with.

Do you always choose to obey God's commandment to love one another so grudgingly?
I would highly recommend as you suggested that people re-review what I said if you find it necessary.
Also, the commandment about judging people as you do, which we are not to do (except judge righteously), do you dismiss that commandment too?
(Referring to your earlier points about my not being grounded in Scripture and the host of insults you sent my way?)
But more important, your slinging of comments and Scripture that obviously come from an angry spirit.
I could quote tons of Scripture here right back at you, and you know it.
What would that do?
Would you talk the way you did to me here just now as you would to your Pastor if he sat right here next to you? Of course not, you hypocrite.

[Biblestudent]

I think everyone who joins a forum has just to consider the "nature" of forums. To me, however, forums are primarily where one expresses ideas, thought, and opinions, and secondarily emotions.

When joining a forum, I would not try to be too "emotionally involved" and would rather give way to objective discussion. Some things go out of hand, of course, the reason why there are moderators.

[peopleoftheway]

Doxa

I read over Georges post and I did even as you said and went back and read yours. Can you answer me a few questions, simply to know where you are coming from

1.Do you believe women should be allowed to preach?
2.Do you believe that the catholics go to heaven with their interpretation of scripture?
3.Do you believe that all Churches are set for heaven regardless of their doctrine? if they say they "believe" in Jesus
4.Do you believe in the gift of tongues
5.You said back in a previous post, that God showed you a vision of Elijah is that correct?

these are not trick questions, I just wish to know.

I understand now...you want me to answer these questions with Scripture.
Okay give me some time...I will...I concur, very odd questions.
One can only wonder what is meant by these particular questions.
But if you need to know...

[peopleoftheway]

No need to answer this with scripture a simple yes or no is sufficient for me, like I said this is for my understanding.

1.Do you believe women should be allowed to preach?

I wrote this a long time ago; so glad I was able to locate it in my files; this about sums up what I believe on the verses that pertain to “women preachers”…….please note this was years ago, and even the Baptist folks that I knew encouraged me to study this out using Greek manuscripts and materials even providing me with books to study further.

Greetings in the Name of Jesus.

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx....

Recently, on another discussion board the verses in Ephesians came to light...

Eph 4:8-11
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
(KJV)

XXXXX, would you not assume that it would suggest that these gifts were given to “men”???
But look at the definitions for this Greek word “men”... (It is not the Greek word for only men.)

STRONG’s Definition:

444 anthropos (anth'-ro-pos);

from 435 and ops (the countenance; from 3700); man-faced, i.e. a human being:

KJV-- certain, man.


THAYERS’ Definition:

444 anthropos-

1) a human being, whether male or female
a) generically, to include all human individuals
b) to distinguish man from beings of a different race or order
1) used of animals and plants
2) used of from God and Christ
3) used of the angels
c) with the added notion of weakness, by which man is led
into a mistake or prompted to sin
d) with the adjunct notion of contempt or disdainful pity
e) with reference to two fold nature of man, body and soul
f) with reference to the two fold nature of man, the corrupt
and the truly Christian man, conformed to the nature of God
g) with reference to sex, a male
2) indefinitely, someone, a man, one
3) in the plural, people
4) joined with other words, merchantman

Would that not IN FACT support the role of women in the Ministry??? Hence, my question.

The following is a letter I wrote sometime ago on another discussion board.

Dear Saints of God,
Greetings in the Name of Jesus.
This question impacted me greatly over a year ago. The scriptures that we are discussing are:

1 Cor 14:34-36
34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience, as also saith the law.
35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.
36 What? came the word of God out from you? or came it unto you only?
(KJV)

1 Tim 2:11-12
11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.
12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
(KJV)

What happened to me was that if you take verse 1 Cor 14:34 “literally as translated”, it conflicts with the Bible. Then, I noticed that each church divides that verse or interprets it the way they feel like it; basically how much a woman can participate in church. When you take it literally (just the way it is written) a woman cannot even pray in church. This of course opposes other Scripture where we are to pray without ceasing. I was thoroughly confused as I looked at many translations and discovered that most were translated the same way.
Did this mean that women should not go to church, I wondered? What am I doing in church if I cannot pray out loud or sing or prophecy or have a Word of Knowledge, etc. etc. There are many churches, I believe, that will not let a woman pass out communion and a host of other things, but I ask you, where is the Biblical support for that?

So, I went to the Greek manuscripts, and this is what I came up with after much study and reading on this topic:

This is my translation based on the manuscripts that I saw:

1 Cor 14:34 Let your wives be in quietness in the assemblies, for it is not permitted for them to chatter, but let them be in subjection, as the law also says.
1 Cor 14:35 If they desire to learn anything, let them ask their own husbands at home, for it is shameful for a wife to chatter in the assembly.

(Another picture of marriage representing the Christ and the Bride of Christ, silent before God, and asking God privately for revelation.)

1 Tim 2:11 Let a wife learn in quietness with all subjection.
1 Tim 2:12 But I do not permit a wife to teach-as ruling or lording over her husband nor with her own words kills her husband but to be in quietness.

(A picture of the Bride of Christ and their Husband, Jesus)

Regarding the word “speak” in 1 Cor 14:34…in the Greek it is 2980 laleo: to talk, utter words, emit a sound, speak, use tongue, utter articulate sounds, to tell, declare one’s mind, disclose one’s thoughts (an extended or random harangue (to address in) a noisy or scolding speech---idle chatter, talk idly)

Here is the important note about the word “teach” in 1 Tim 2:12: Strong’s #1321 didasko 1) to teach, instruct by word of mouth: what is meant in this verse is teaching that is lording over her husband. Very important note—this Greek word “teach” is not 1317, 1318, 1319, 1320, 1322 --- various other words for “teach” in the Greek. I would advise checking them out and comparing the various definitions for “teach”.

Also, regarding usurp authority --- that is #831 authenteo 1) one who with his own hands kills another or himself 2) one who acts on his own authority, autocratic 3) an absolute master 4) to govern, to exercise dominion over one.

I believe these Scriptures are dealing with husbands and wives because they are a picture of Jesus Christ, ever Faithful (Our Lover), and His Bride, who Love and Respect HIM. I believe marriage should be a replica of this.

This is what happened to me last year…I was sitting in the living room and after much searching and studying, I asked the Lord why do so many of these translations translate the same way? The Lord gave me only one word, “Persecution”.


2.Do you believe that the catholics go to heaven with their interpretation of scripture?

3.Do you believe that all Churches are set for heaven regardless of their doctrine? if they say they "believe" in Jesus

Regarding 2 & 3, I will answer them together….

Point One:
Luke 9:49-51
49 And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us.
50 And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us.
KJV
Point Two:
Rom 8:19-20
19 For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.
KJV
Point Three:
I for one believe this will surprise us when it happens…
Matt 7:20-24
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
Point Four:
Matt 25:31-26:1
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
KJV

As far as those who make it to Heaven, I do believe that God looks on the heart. Those who fear HIM (JESUS) and love HIM and Obey Him.

4.Do you believe in the gift of tongues………
Acts 2:3-4
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
KJV
Acts 2:11-12
11 Cretes and Arabians, we do hear them speak in our tongues the wonderful works of God.
KJV
Acts 10:46-47
46 For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
KJV
Acts 19:6-7
6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.
KJV
1 Cor 12:10-11
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
KJV
1 Cor 12:28-29
28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
KJV
1 Cor 12:30-31
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
KJV
1 Cor 13:8-9
8 Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
KJV
1 Cor 14:5-6
5 I would that ye all spake with tongues, but rather that ye prophesied: for greater is he that prophesieth than he that speaketh with tongues, except he interpret, that the church may receive edifying.
KJV
1 Cor 14:6-7
6 Now, brethren, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, what shall I profit you, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?
KJV
1 Cor 14:18-19
18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all:
KJV
1 Cor 14:21-22
21 In the law it is written, With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak unto this people; and yet for all that will they not hear me, saith the Lord.
KJV
1 Cor 14:22-24
22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.
23 If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad?
KJV
1 Cor 14:39-40
39 Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.
KJV

5.You said back in a previous post, that God showed you a vision of Elijah is that correct?
Yes, and many other awesome experiences from the Lord.