Originally Posted by Brother Tim

This is a troubling statement. It is similar to a song that I heard recently. The chorus was describing heaven as being beautiful because "you are there". I assumed that it was speaking of Jesus, but then I heard the next verse where it talked of the "you" of the chorus walking and talking with Jesus. The song was about a dead loved one.

The truth of the matter is that our praise and adoration and complete focus will be on the LORD Jesus Christ and Him alone. We will not be concerned about who or what else is present there...

Come on now Bro. Tim, maybe I'm not that spiritual as some folks, but I have to say that I am certainly looking forward to seeing many of my deceased friends and family members in Heaven one day. I am very concerned about who else will be present there! I will admit my concern does not extend to pets however. (my apologies to all the pet lovers--no offense intended).

[Brother Tim]

As I live today, I am too very concerned about who will be in Heaven with me in eternity. But that is now. That is what God has put me here to do. Things will be different when we get there. Sure, I joke with my friends about wanting to ask Peter about a few things. I would like Paul to tell about some of the things he hinted about that happened to him. I would like to finally meet my father's mother who made so the difference in his life as a child that he never ceased to speak of her faith. All I have is her Bible which is full of the most beautiful comments in the tiniest of handwriting. BUT that is now.

Just musing about these things may not be enough of a problem to comment on, but when it becomes the focus of a person, THAT is a problem. There are way too many sappy songs about reuniting with those who have gone before.

I just finished a funeral service for a woman that I had only met at an earlier funeral. Her husband was "almost certain" that she had been baptized, but he didn't know when or where. Her friends and family spoke of her as if she were a saint, but she had no church family. Her favorite songs played at the funeral were not in the slightest reflective of a Godly person. Yet, all that her husband and friends could talk about is seeing her in the "future life". Thank the LORD, I was free to present the truth of the Gospel to a crowd largely made up of those who appeared anything but believers.

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Renee

Geologist,

Your avatar is cute .
Here are some verses that might comfort you.

Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

Heaven is a new beginning. I was going to quote the verse that George quoted above as that was the first verse that came to mind. I also remembered this verse:

Isaiah 65:25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together, and the lion shall eat straw like the bullock: and dust shall be the serpent's meat. They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain, saith the LORD.

I would recomend reading from verse 65:17 through verse 25. Our life on earth will be remembered no more and if we love animals,there will be animals we can pleasure in, in the new Heavens.

Aloha,
Renee

Hi Renee,
Just a clarification: The passage you have quoted takes place during the 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ on the Earth. Yes, there will be animals there during that time (their wild survival instincts gone) and people will live longer lives similar to the times before Noah's flood (see Isa 65:22 i.e. lifespans as long as trees). But all of this, including this "new heavens and new Earth" are not the same has the new heaven and earth at Revelation 21. We know this because during this 1,000 years there is still death on the Earth (see Isa 65:20). Death is not finally ended until after the end of the 1,000 years (read Rev 20:14).

[chette777]

George.

You did right by correcting the view of Geologist concerning his pet. I let it slide as you were going too.

a small error in one place can build to errors in other places. so it was OK to correct that understanding.

I had a dog I trained he was so smart and loving. when he got out and was struck by car and left Paralyzed I cried like a baby as I had signed the papers to have him put to sleep. that was before I was saved. I too thought I would see him in heaven or that he had gone to a better place.

but the Bible corrected that understanding.

[George]

“Hi Renee,
”Just a clarification: The passage you have quoted takes place during the 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ on the Earth. Yes, there will be animals there during that time (their wild survival instincts gone) and people will live longer lives similar to the times before Noah's flood (see Isa 65:22 i.e. lifespans as long as trees). But all of this, including this "new heavens and new Earth" are not the same has the new heaven and earth at Revelation 21. We know this because during this 1,000 years there is still death on the Earth (see Isa 65:20). Death is not finally ended until after the end of the 1,000 years (read Rev 20:14).”

Geologist,

“Just a clarification” - Your attitude towards the Holy Scriptures is speculative (at best) and defiant (at worst – I will demonstrate). Your refusal to accept the Scriptures, as they are written, is typical of modern day Christians.

I have not commented on your many Posts about your “speculations” over the creation, because I try not to get drawn into issues that have no profit and do not lend themselves to edification. Endless speculation over the creation or prophesy are not only a waste of time, they are destructive to Christian harmony and fellowship.

2 Timothy 2:23 But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes.

Titus 3:9 But avoid foolish questions, and genealogies, and contentions, and strivings about the law; for they are unprofitable and vain.

However your snide comments to my wife (as if she were some kind of ignoramus) this morning “tears it” (why didn’t you answer me directly?)! And so, if you were astounded by my Biblical answer to your Humanist drivel, here’s some more: ““Just a clarification”:

“I was astonished this morning to find my post on my departed dog had generated such a doctrinal firestorm. It was a real Job 16:2 moment to go with my morning coffee. <smile>”

“Doctrinal firestorm” - There was NO “doctrinal firestorm”. I simply pointed out that, according to the Scriptures, your statement was in error (and only after several Posts by some others on the Forum, seemingly in support of your unscriptural statement.)

Genuine Bible believers apply the Scriptures to every single facet of their lives – NOT just part of their lives. A Biblicist takes what the Lord Jesus Christ said and applies it to his heart, and tries to live by His words – NOT by what we “feel” or “think” is true! [Matthew 4:4 But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.]

”I'm not going to argue doctrine on this matter, but I will speak what I know in my heart. Animals are little furry people, each with their own individual personality traits, shortcomings and attributes. They too ARE living souls, in their own right. They are capable of love and hate. They can be jealous or angry; they can be loving and nurturing. They can be concerned when you are sick and give comfort. They have even been known to sacrifice their life to save someone they loved.”

Until you insulted my wife, I let some of your erroneous statements go by (figuring they weren’t worth replying to) however, your statement above is so “typical” of modern day Christians as to serve as an example of their (and your) attitude towards God’s Holy words.

If DOCTRINE isn’t worth arguing over – WHAT IS? Uncorrupt and sound DOCTRINE is what determines our eternal destiny!
[1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.]

God requires that we “speak the things which become sound doctrine” – NOT our “feelings” or our personal “opinions”.
[Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:]

God requires that as far as our DOCTRINE is concerned – it is to be “uncorrupt” – NOT what we “think” is true, but what God says is true.
Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,

God requires that we “obey from the heart” sound doctrine – NOT just do or say whatever makes us “feel good”.
Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

You said: "Animals are little furry people". Can you demonstrate (or prove) what you believe with Scripture? I trow not! Then WHY say it?

There are many warnings in the Bible concerning those people who refuse to obey sound doctrine, and what we are to do when we encounter them.
2 John 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

The following statement by you illustrates my point precisely:

”Now and then, a special little someone will come into one's life. Mine wondered into our housing compound in northern Greece from a nearby sheep herder's camp. He was a tiny puppy with large paws who was more than a bit under-nourished. In a few short months he grew into 100 lbs of boundless energy.”

For your information – a dog is not a "person" (it is not “someone”, i.e. "people")! In 48 years of marriage we have had several dogs (and cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, ducks, turtles, and Hawaiian “snakes”, etc.). They were all “pets” not “people”. And though I personally believe that dogs make the best “pets”, they are still dogs (animals) not "people", and to say otherwise flies in the face of the very Scriptures you are supposedly trying to defend.

We can love a pet; I do not believe that our pets “love” us. When people anthropomorphize their “feelings” towards their pets (like that lady with the violent chimpanzee) and project what they “feel” for their pets INTO their pets, and “think” that their pet is “reciprocating” their “feelings”, they are blindly fooling themselves!

And now on to your most egregious statement:

“The Psalmist says that,...love is as strong as death..." and I say, nay, love is stronger than death. And that is all I need to know to have comfort.”

Song of Solomon 8:6 Set me as a seal upon thine heart, as a seal upon thine arm: for love is strong as death; jealousy is cruel as the grave: the coals thereof are coals of fire, which hath a most vehement flame.

#1. It wasn’t the “Psalmist” that said those words – it was Solomon (David’s son).

#2. When someone openly DENIES what the Scripture plainly says and then ADDS to the Holy words of God – that “does it for me”!

“and I say, NAY, love is stronger than death. And that is all I need to know to have comfort.”

Do you even realize WHAT you just said? You just openly DENIED the Holy words of God! You said NAY to God! When a man does that openly, before genuine Bible believers, what do you expect us to do? When you openly declared NAY to the words of God, you removed whatever credibility you might have had (at least for me) when it comes to any and all of your comments regarding the Holy Scriptures. When you declare NAY to a clear statement from Scripture and then declare: “that is all I need to know to have comfort.” – It tells me that you are not a sincere and genuine Bible believer, so WHY should I take anything that you say seriously?

Your misuse of the verse below in regards to your dog was the “final straw” for me (personally).

“The Lord giveth; He taketh away. I am thankful for His gift.”

Job 1:21And said, Naked came I out of my mother's womb, and naked shall I return thither: the LORD gave, and the LORD hath taken away; blessed be the name of the LORD.

You see, the Lord took our oldest son (42 years old) Home to be with Him nearly five years ago. When we received the call informing us of his sudden and unexpected death – instantly Job 1:21 came to my mind (and gave me great comfort) and very soon after 2 Corinthians 5:8 also came to my mind [2 Corinthians 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.], and God comforted me (and my wife Renee) with His precious words. The very idea that you would equate your dog with a person is abhorrent to me! The very idea that you felt about your dog, the way we felt about our son is so foreign to me, as to generate within me feelings of revulsion! I repeat – A DOG IS NOT A "PERSON"! Dogs DO NOT have "souls" - like us! They DO NOT have "spirits" - like us! They DO NOT have "hearts" or "minds" - like us! They CANNOT discern the difference between "good & evil" - like us! They have NO "conscience" - like us! They are NOT going to spend eternity, either with the Lord, or in the Lake of Fire!

And finally your quote:
Quote:

“Hi Renee,
”Just a clarification: The passage you have quoted takes place during the 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ on the Earth. Yes, there will be animals there during that time (their wild survival instincts gone) and people will live longer lives similar to the times before Noah's flood (see Isa 65:22 i.e. lifespans as long as trees). But all of this, including this "new heavens and new Earth" are not the same has the new heaven and earth at Revelation 21. We know this because during this 1,000 years there is still death on the Earth (see Isa 65:20). Death is not finally ended until after the end of the 1,000 years (read Rev 20:14).”

I notice that you avoided addressing me (or my comments) directly. Instead, in an off-hand manner, and very subtly, you “corrected” my wife (after she was innocently trying to empathize with you) because she forgot to include the word “earth” in her final comment. Did you take the time to read the verse that she quoted? {Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.} Do you “think” that after having been married to me for 48 years that she couldn’t discern between those things of which you spoke? What was your point then?

Or could you not help yourself? You just had get in at least one “cheap shot” in order to justify your blatant DEFIANCE of God’s Holy words and openly CHANGING them.

After observing your utter “disregard” for the Holy words of God in this instance, you may rest assured, that I for one, will disregard anything you have to say from here on out! I learned long ago to avoid "gnat strainers" and Bible correctors.

[Gord]

Romans 1:22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

Romans 12:16 Be not wise in your own conceits.

Perhaps Geologist will

1 Corinthians 3:18 Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

Learn from the wisdom of Brother George's reply.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by geologist

He was my best friend.

Please know my heart. In no way am I debating the issue or invalidating the way you feel. But your comment "He was my best friend" makes me think of this reality.

Every Christian should know that Jesus Christ has called you His friend. Wow! Is that amazing? Does that make you feel special? Pause and absorb that truth. Think about who YOU are and who HE is. The creator of all things calls me His friend.

“For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: ALL THINGS WERE CREATED BY HIM, AND FOR HIM:” (Colossians 1:16).

Let that sink in today. Jesus Christ is your friend! I have not earned His friendship. It’s not that I’m worthy or deserving. Jesus did not say, “Wow that’s Forrest…I think I want to be his friend.” Come on! Do any of us deserve to be called the friend of Jesus?

Jesus is our friend because He is the personification of mercy, grace, love, and forgiveness. Holy and righteous God has reached down to sinful man through Jesus Christ.

“For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life” (Romans 5:10).

I am the friend of Jesus. He is my best friend. Who is yours?

[QUOTE]

Originally Posted by George

You said: "Animals are little furry people". Can you demonstrate (or prove) what you believe with Scripture? I trow not! Then WHY say it?..............

For your information – a dog is not a "person" (it is not “someone”, i.e. "people")! In 48 years of marriage we have had several dogs (and cats, rabbits, guinea pigs, hamsters, ducks, turtles, and Hawaiian “snakes”, etc.). They were all “pets” not “people”. And though I personally believe that dogs make the best “pets”, they are still dogs (animals) not "people", and to say otherwise flies in the face of the very Scriptures you are supposedly trying to defend.

Proverbs 30:25: The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer;

Shalom,

Tandi

[Renee]

Brother Forrest,

Post # 27 this thread. That would make a good thread. Maybe you should START A thread on "WHO IS YOUR BEST FRIEND?". Be nice to end this thread, real soon.


RENEE

[geologist]

Originally Posted by Gord

Perhaps Geologist will
Learn from the wisdom of Brother George's reply.

Yes, I received a great deal of wisdom from George's reply, and yours. The message is quite clear.