If anyone adds ANYTHING to what Jesus has done and believes it is necessary for salvation, they are not saved. It is Jesus and His finished work of redemption alone. Baptism is the first step of obedience for the new believer. Check out Acts 8:37 - the Ethiopian Eunuch got baptized because he already believed in Jesus Christ with all his heart. Romans 6 teaches that baptism is a picture of Jesus' death, burial and resurrection - it is a public statement of your faith in Him and an indentification with what He has done to save you. It adds nothing to salvation. Your place in eternity is determined by what you do with Jesus, not whether you have Jesus + something else. Also, the Bible clearly teaches we are not saved by any works (works of the law, works of righteousness - but solely by God's grace received through our faith in Jesus's finished work on the cross - and this verse shows that baptism is a work of righteousness:

Matthew 3:15 And Jesus answering said unto him, Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness. Then he suffered him.

Titus 3:4-7 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour; That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Romans 4:3-6 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness. Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,

Philippians 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:

Trace out the word "righteousness" in the NT and see how it is obtained: through faith, not works. Isaiah 64:6 shows that man's righteousness is as filthy rags in God's sight - could never earn or merit salvation - therefore it must only be through God's righteousness credited to our account. See Jeremiah 23:6.

[Paladin54]

Jerry,





Amen.

[atlas]

TLDurst,

I am going to give you some Bible and break this down for you.

Eph. 2: 8 -10

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.

10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

This is one of the best places you can study in the Bible to learn how to be saved.

For by grace, ( Grace means unearned favor. Unearned because our work are not good enough to be saved. ) are ye saved by faith. Faith is being a true believer.

Heb 11:1

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

As you can see here this has nothing to do with a head faith, but a heart faith. Head faith example I believe that Jesus lived and died on a cross. Heart faith example, I believe that Jesus died for me. It changed my whole life. I have never been the same after I called on his name and ask him to save me from my sins. This covers faith and saved.

Not of works, lest any man should boast.

I can not work my way to salvation no matter what I do. Works like giving money to help folks. Helping little old ladies across the street or even religious works like going to church or getting baptized will not save me. many of these works are good, we could do all of these works and more. They can not and will not save me. I am a sinner because I have sinned. Only Jesus can save me from my sins.

For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

When we get saved we need to do good works, not to get saved or stay saved, because we were created to do good works. This is the reason why we do good works. We all need to do good works. We also need to know that these good works have nothing to do with us being saved.

So read everything I have posted here. real my last post about God's simple plan of salvation. Jerry also made made a good post read it and think it over.

Jamie

Today in the Chinese speaking church, 90% of Chinese Christians use the Chinese Union Translation (CUT) and the English NIV version - both based on Westcot and Hort's Revised Standard Version. And there is no Bible Society today that publishes a Chinese version of the Bible that agrees with the King James Version / Textus Receptus.

However, in 1880/1885, 30 years before the CUT was published and prior to Westcot & Hort's Revised Version - The Presbyterian Mission in Shanghai published an English and Chinese King James Version of the New Testament.

After much searching..... we have found the 1880/1885 Chinese and English version of the King James.

You can freely download this Chinese-English Version from our website at http://lutheranchurch.cn

Your brother in Christ,

Pr. JC Smith
Kaohsiung Lutheran Mission


Thank you

[atlas]

Bro. Smith,

Welcome to the Kaohsiung Lutheran Mission, proclaiming the free forgiveness of sins through faith in Christ Jesus

I love seeing this on your site my friend. It is all about faith Bro Smith. I hope God will bless you as you move forward with the Lords work. I'm going to ad you to my prayer list. God bless you Bro. Smith.




Atlas

[George]

Originally Posted by TLDurst

I've always known and believed that Jesus died on the cross for my sins but I've never separated baptism from being saved. I was raised in a Pentecostal church . I don't recall ever being taught that one could be saved without being baptized. If one believes in Jesus Christ and accepts him as his Lord and Saviour but is never baptized where will he spend eternity?

You have to RECEIVE the Lord Jesus Christ as your Saviour.
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

This is the "KEY" to understanding the Gospel of the Grace of God.
James 2:19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.

There is a difference in believing ABOUT God; the Lord Jesus Christ; and the Gospel and beleiving IN Him! If you truly believe IN Him - you will TRUST him for your Salvation and He will save you. 1 Timothy 4:10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

That's when you receive the Gift of God. John 4:10 Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water.

[Paladin54]

Originally Posted by jerry

If anyone adds ANYTHING to what Jesus has done and believes it is necessary for salvation, they are not saved.

Uh, can you elaborate Jerry?

[Jeff]

Originally Posted by Paladin54

Uh, can you elaborate Jerry?

I think I understand what Jerry is saying. You cannot depend on works, or even Christ plus works, for salvation because then your faith is not fully in Christ.

But it does raise a question in my mind: Can a person truely accept Christ as Savior, then not be properly discipled or study the Word, and end up in a church that teaches false doctrine and end up believing that baptism, or whatever, is neccessary? I've wondered the same thing about people who believe you can lose your salvation because it seems to me they're saying Christ's sacrifice isn't perfect.

Isn't Paul speaking to true believers here:

Galatians 3:2-3 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?

Galatians 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?

Yes, it certainly is possible for someone to get confused and mix things up if they spend too much time listening to false doctrine or hanging around with false brethren. What it comes down to then is: what did they believe at the time they professed to come to the Lord for salvation? If they believed in works then, they never were saved. If they truly believed the Gospel according to the Scriptures at that point in time, then they are saved - they unfortunately are seriously confused/deceived and need to spend some major time in God's Word sorting out what the Bible says - not what their cultic friends have taught them.

Jerry, what makes you think everything you believe is absolutely the only way something can be understood? You keep mentioning "false doctrine" making "God-Almighty" statemenst as if you were the one who wrote the Bible. You are arrogant and come across in many of your comments as rough and intolerant. You say you are intolerant of false doctrine, never supposing you might be the one in error.