Originally Posted by Will Kinney

Tim, how can you possibly know that what was originally written was inerrant? You have never seen it, and it doesn't exist. Isn't that a position of faith taken from 'bibles' that you yourself seem to imply are not inerrant?
Thanks, Will K.

Bro. Kinney you beat me to it, that is the first question that came to my mind when I read his statement about inerrant originals... at that point I was going to ask it myself, but then I saw your post and remembered that Greektim likes to ASK questions, but flat out refuses to ANSWER the really good questions we ask him. I see a pattern developing here... (see post no. 13)

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Greektim

I was not referring ot you in the lambasting (is that how you say it???). What I mean by meaning is interpretation. I said that the words and letters and meaning was inspired. At least that's what I was intending to say.

Okay brother, let's go one further, is the first copy of Leviticus just as "inspired" as the original? The Levites made a copy of the OT Scriptures and then destroyed the one they copied from. NT Christians did their best under the circumstances to preserve their copies of the Scriptures but there is just a point when they have to be recopied onto other media, but the Jews destroyed the worn copies of the OT. I have held in my hands a NT in the Russian language written on toilet paper for obvious reasons: it was easy to conceal from KGB informers among the people and it was the only media they had to write on.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Greektim]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

Okay brother, let's go one further, is the first copy of Leviticus just as "inspired" as the original? The Levites made a copy of the OT Scriptures and then destroyed the one they copied from. NT Christians did their best under the circumstances to preserve their copies of the Scriptures but there is just a point when they have to be recopied onto other media, but the Jews destroyed the worn copies of the OT. I have held in my hands a NT in the Russian language written on toilet paper for obvious reasons: it was easy to conceal from KGB informers among the people and it was the only media they had to write on.

Grace and peace

Tony

My answer should be consistent throughout the rest of the steps you take further. Was the first copy as "inspired" as the original? I would say that it is inspired to the extent that it agrees with the original. If it was a perfect match to the original, then yes...it was just as inspired.

As a side note, I am curious about destroying the original copy once a new copy is made. Was that an ancient BC custom or do we only see that practiced by the Masoretes?

[Greektim]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Bro. Kinney you beat me to it, that is the first question that came to my mind when I read his statement about inerrant originals... at that point I was going to ask it myself, but then I saw your post and remembered that Greektim likes to ASK questions, but flat out refuses to ANSWER the really good questions we ask him. I see a pattern developing here... (see post no. 13)

To say "it doesn't exist" almost implies "it never existed." But I don't have to see it to believe it. Call it a matter of faith that the originals were inspired and inerrant. I doubt you would deny that, though these days I have been surprised on more than one occasion by KJVO views.

OH...by the way, I answered a question to Tony. He is pursuing dialogue through calm, courteous, and kind manner. I can respect that.

[bondservant40]

Originally Posted by tonybones2112

....

Paul says in Romans that each person may be fully persuaded in their minds, but 7 Scripture verses convinced me of the KJV's status as the inspired words of God, not manuscript evidence. We walk by faith, not by sight.

[/I]

Tony

Tony,

Amen. We walk by faith.

I am curious which 7 Bible verses convinced you of the status of the KJB?

thanks and God bless you brother.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bondservant40

Tony,

Amen. We walk by faith.

I am curious which 7 Bible verses convinced you of the status of the KJB?

thanks and God bless you brother.

Here you are

1.De 17:18 And it shall be, when he sitteth upon the throne of his kingdom, that he shall write him a copy of this law in a book out of that which is before the priests the Levites:

If you read the passage in Deut. 17, you see this is the future kings of Israel. Custody of the Scriptures were not given to the king, but to the Levites, the priests. Why did God place such emphasis on the king making a "copy" and not just go over to the Temple and study the "original manuscripts"?

2.Job 32:8 But there is a spirit in man: and the inspiration of the Almighty giveth them understanding.

Beth, the "MV"s and original Manuscript Frauds of this world bleat that we teach "double inspiration" if we say the KJV is given by inspiration. If only they knew. I teach triple inspiration.

1. The original manuscripts
2. Copies and translations of the original manuscripts
3. The Holy Ghost working in you to give you understanding.

3. Isa 34:16 Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them.

Simple statement any child can understand. In the OT, in the NT times, post apostolic and all through history God has kept His words somewhere in a "book".

4. 2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.

Nearly all the knowing liars who deny Beth a copy of the original manuscripts in her language say the "holy" Scriptures are "only inspired in the original manuscripts". Yeah? Kewl. Then Timothy had these original manuscripts all his life?

5.2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

All Scripture is given by inspiration, not the original manuscripts was given. Everything God does is by His inspiration.

6.Ac 20:27 For I have not shunned to declare unto you all the counsel of God.

Are any of the "books" of the Bible "lost"? What about I John 5:7, Acts 8:37, John 7:58-8:11, Mark 16:9-20, the ending of the Lord's prayer and the last 6 verses of Revelation 22?

*7*I Thes. 2:13 For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God, which effectually worketh also in you that believe.

This was the verse caused me to see what inspiration is. The problem with the MVs and unbelievers in God's preserved words is that the verse they say don;t belong still work effectually in the Christians who preach and believe them.(see the list above of "missing verses").

Beth, these 7 verses are the ones that really hit me between the eyes and opened them, there are hundreds of verses, thousands, that praise the word of God and testify for it and Him. These 7 are the most salient to me, there is a list of what I call The Five Verse Annex, would you like those?

Grace and peace sister

Tony

[bondservant40]

Tony - this is great! I am going to print them out right now. I have thought of some of the same arguments, but you gathered them all so succinctly! :-)

Oh - and I love your triple inspiration - AMEN!

Yes, I'd love the other verses. I'll print them out too. God bless you dear brother! Thank you.

Side note: tears in my eyes as I write this, though I am not an extremely "emotional" person....but it is SO GOOD to talk to other people that believe God preserved His Word!!! And there is so much less fighting here than on many KJ boards. What a treasure you all are!

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by bondservant40

Tony - this is great! I am going to print them out right now. I have thought of some of the same arguments, but you gathered them all so succinctly! :-)

Oh - and I love your triple inspiration - AMEN!

Yes, I'd love the other verses. I'll print them out too. God bless you dear brother! Thank you.

Side note: tears in my eyes as I write this, though I am not an extremely "emotional" person....but it is SO GOOD to talk to other people that believe God preserved His Word!!! And there is so much less fighting here than on many KJ boards. What a treasure you all are!

Sorry for the delay sister

8. Isa 55:11 So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

Every gospel tract ever given out with His words, every sermon that was ever preached with His words, every word of God that Beth has ever spoken to anyone at anytime anywhere, will not return to Him empty. Beth, this is why I quit arguing "manuscript evidence" with the Original Manuscipt Frauds. The manuscript evidence issue is a good one to study, the final factor in determining a person's decision on whether or not he or she has God's words in their hands today that can be bought in any thrift shop or Dollar Store is through the internal evidence of the Scriptures themselves.

9. 2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

"We can see that there is a clear mistranslation of what Matthew actually wrote..." Matthew never wrote a word. Neither did Luke, Peter, or Moses. They dictated the Scriptures:

Ro 16:22 I Tertius, who wrote this epistle, salute you in the Lord.

Paul gave a salutation in his own handwriting for each Epistle, and he appears to have written the book of Galatians himself. Peter was a fisherman, we have evidence of course he could read, we have no evidence Peter could write. My grandmother in Kentucky never went to school, she could spell words out and read them, she could not write. Jeremiah 36 is another pattern for how the Scriptures were actually written. Another problem the Original Manuscript Frauds have is that the "authors" of a given Scripture spoke under God's inspiration, the scribes were not "inspired". We have no evidence from any "original manuscript" of Romans that Tertius could spell correctly.

10. Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

The Original Manuscript Fraud says "only the original manuscripts are inspired". If that were true, what they are saying is this:

Ro 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the original manuscripts.

If there are no "original manuscripts" by their teaching, there is no faith and no salvation, salvation is by grace through faith. Faith cometh by hearing and hearing by the word of God, if there is no "word of God", there is no faith.

Do you see the corner these fools paint themselves into?

11. Lu 4:21 And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.

Did Jesus Christ read from the original manuscript of Isaiah, or did He have a copy? He had a copy and called it Scripture.

12. Ps 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

Beth, ask an Original Manuscript Fraud what is the Name above every name? The Lord Jesus Christ is what they will tell you, and they are correct. Ask them what the final authority for all matters are, they will say God.

What is God's final authority?

His words.

Grace and peace sister Beth, I hope this has been helpful to you. Part Three of Triple Inspiration is on it's way.

Tony

[bondservant40]

amen, thanks Tony! Looking forward to it.