I believe one should always seek the Gift-Giver (Jesus) and not the gift. I'm embarrassed when I hear stories of "Pentecostals-gone-mad" (and I've witnessed it myself), but, there are "conservative" Pentecostals out there, and I'm one of them.

Since I was a Baptist who was Baptizes in the Holy Ghost, and I wasn't even looking for it because I didn't believe in it, there are most likely others, too.

I love the Word of God. It is my final authority So, if "the sky" says one thing, and the Bible says another thing, "the sky" is wrong.

Catholics and Pentecostals worshipping together? I had a Catholic come to my church once. He took exception to what I was preaching. He accused me of "Catholic Bashing", and not getting my information from Catholic sources" (I was preaching about communion and didn't even mention 'Catholic'). I asked him for "Genuine Catholic Literature". I took it, and ended up writing a book entitled: "Why I'm Not A Roman Catholic". All I did was compare Catholic Doctrine with the Authorized Bible. At the end of the book, I stated that Roman Catholic Doctrine is NOT Biblical Doctrine, and they are not to be considered a Christian Church.

I believe the message of the Cross is the main doctrine to be preached.I believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit but do all speak in tongues St Paul would say?Its plain in 1st Cor 12:28-31 that all people do not recieve this gift or all of these gifts listed.As for Acts chapter 2 its plain that these tongues were different earthly languages.I hear brother Donnie Swaggart say Acts 2:4 is not an earthly tongue uttered but Gods Word says different on down.I dont hold to women being Pastors either the Bible is very clear on this subject also.I hear those that believe the gift of tongues is for everyone and it is a baptism by the Holy Spirit with the evidence with speaking in other Tongues.Some are after the gifts instead of the gift giver.If one can lose their salvation why would the Saviour ever of saved them to begin with?Salvation is of the power of God and if you can undo a work God has performed you are stronger than God.

God bless.
Brother Miller.

Has anyone ever noticed some of the requests made by churches for their ministerial staff? I can't believe some of the "qualifications" being asked for.

The one that was most absurd was for a volunteer position as music minister. Basically, it sounded like they wanted The Apostle Paul and Elvis Presley combined into one superstar to take them to "the next level (whatever that is)".

I've come across a lot of churches that act like they don't need God at all. Everything is covered, taken care of, blah blah blah.

I'm praying for the day when another great awakening will happen in this country; when men like Johnathan Edwards read their sermon by candle-light and men and women grab the pillars of the church begging God to forgive them because the anointing and convicting power of the Holy Ghost is on them.

I don't believe we will ever see another Great Awakening or revival on a national level, or even on a city level. When we compare our times and those times with Revelation 2-3, it is obvious that we are currently in the age of Laodicea** (whereas the Great Awakening fits the era of the Philadelphian church). That's not to say that individuals and individual churches cannot have revival - because I truly believe we can and do experience that on a personal level - just not on a large scale. There is too much junk and confusion in Christendom - even among true born again believers - for this to happen (sorry Bill Bright for bursting your bubble...).

**Matthew 13 and several other places in the NT teach that there will be a time of apostasy and turning from the truth worldwide - among professing believers - before the return of Christ.

Amo 8:11 Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD:
Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find it.
Amo 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst.

All the evidence point to the above prophecy being fulfilled today, in the Laodicean church age.

If you talk to many Christians today, they will tell you that they dont know for sure if they will go to Heaven when they die, but think Jesus is "cool", or "awsome".

A relative of mine attends Bible college but nevertheless rated the quality of a church he had visited not by the quality of the preaching, but by how "awsome" the music (CCM) was.

The professors at the "Baptist" college that he attends use a variety of modern versions and have instilled such a HATE for the KJV into my relative, that he has accused our Church of being cult like.

There can be no wide spread revival when Bible colleges are producing people that are not discussing "what the Bible says" but "what does your version say"

Fundy

[chette777]

My Opinion is we are to busy yolking people to Christian Morality and rules (placing them under law) that we forgot what the early church taught on being filled (possessed for lack of better word) by the Holy Spirit. A Christian needs to know he (or she) has the fullness of the power of God in them at the moment of Faith in Christ finished work onthe cross. once a believer then all he has to do is be possessed by the Holy Spirit (which will make no visable manifestation like laugher or barking ((that's Demonic)) ). and when he comes under temptation, Trial or misgiving taught he must yield to the Holy Spirit Rom. 6:12 ... Yield your members unto God"

life in that manner is so much more victorious than any of the youcan do it rules of many churches today. if your salvation in by faith then your whole life must be lived that way too. it is God who worketh in you to do His will and good pleasure. it is Gods work to make your life correct in this dispensation. to take rules of conduct from other dispensations and adobt them for the church today is wrong.

Get Lewis Sperry Chafer's books, Grace, He that is spiritual, true Evangelism, and others you will find a teaching he learned from Larkins' who learned it from others. nd it is not Calvinism either.

if you would like some send me a private message with your email address and I will be glad to email you some zip copies of his books.

I agree that today's churches are overall dead. I do pray for revival in spite of also agreeing that we are in a "Laodicean" age. God has brought wonderful revival to many a lukewarm church in the past -- that's the whole point, a church is dead and needs to be revived and when His people seek Him for it He has often answered with wonderful revival -- real revival: deep scouring conviction of sin, true and lasting repentance, many conversions and filling with the Holy Spirit. If we are in the very last days, and I believe we are, we are certainly in a pathetic condition to face them. Surely the Lord wants a strong church to do exploits when the worst comes.

I do think that if a church's doctrine is far enough off, if scripture is clearly disobeyed, that God won't bring revival to that church. It's obvious the liberal churches, the Roman church, other apostate churches, aren't going to get revival -- except maybe a version dreamt up by the devil to dazzle the flesh. But many of today's "evangelical" churches are off on many points and may also not expect true revival.

And although I know that there are true Christians among the Pentecostals and Charismatics, I've become convinced that the "gifts" emphasis places them outside the hope of true revival. In the early 90s I was in a charismatic church, had the "gift of tongues," went through a period of painful disillusionment and am still not completely free of its effects, but am now completely convinced that there have been no true manifestations of any of the gifts since the early church, that they are all false -- yes, even when the "gift" is exercised by what I feel sure nevertheless is a true believer. That's a long story and not the subject of this thread, but I thought I should put in that I have some experience of these things.

When God truly comes with power He comes with this scouring of the soul first in conviction of sin. I have been praying for this. First I have been praying that He will give me the fervency and persistence I need simply to pray as I should since I am very weak in prayer, as I think many Christians are these days. Revival praying at some times in the past was done in some cases by the whole eldership of a church plus some members for HOURS ON END, sometimes with fasting. That sort of dedication seems beyond the vast majority of Christians today. I'd love to have it. I've finally begun praying more FOR these things I recognize I lack and the churches lack. I want that conviction of sin, I want that total dedication, I want the river of living water He promised to those who believe Him -- where is it in any of the churches? I don't think there has been a true revival in the world since Wales in 1904, and in America since probably the Great Awakening but at least the Second Great Awakening despite all its tendencies to heresies. (I know some think there are others. J Edwin Orr acknowledges one in the 30s. I'll have to listen again to his discussion of all this, but I'm mostly aware of the counterfeits, which were notorious throughout the 20th century, some still continuing in some charismatic camps.)

But we can always start with ourselves. We always need revival personally whether or not God revives whole churches. So I pray to be revived myself as well as praying for the church to be strengthened, for the building up of God's Kingdom. I don't know if He would still bless whole churches with revival, but I think He would if their members started with a humble willingness to be wrong about many things and a desire that God would search them and convict them of sin and doctrinal error. We can pray for all these things.

Jesus Brought NO labels.I don't care who are you! I know one Man Jesus,as Mediator and my savior,One body which I'm Part of,The Church[Believers in Jesus],One triune God,Elohim!! I believe Holy Spirit is Comforter and comes with Gifts and when rightly exrcised for Glory of God and for Benefits of Church and God's Kingdom;Believers have that Apostolic[I mean Early Apostle's] Power of turning worldUpside Down!
I have witnessed too power of God that doubtless I know it is there.
Examples:
I was repairing mobile phone but I didn't knew what was wrong. I commanded to be healed [made hole/whatever you can term it] in Jesus' name and it Happened!

I have Many times rebuked pains,diseases,...etc and respond in Jesus' Name

Our Brothers Michael Have Many testimonies from their Ministries!
Just Drop at
www.christian-faith.com
www.ministeringdeliverance.com

These have been one of my favorite sites!!
God Bless you!!