[Amanda S.]

I'd like to submit the situation of Abraham and Sarah and Hagar who were before the law.

Genesis 16:3 And Sarai Abram's wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

Genesis 21:9 And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham, mocking.
10 Wherefore she said unto Abraham, Cast out this bondwoman and her son: for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac.
11 And the thing was very grievous in Abraham's sight because of his son.
12 And God said unto Abraham, Let it not be grievous in thy sight because of the lad, and because of thy bondwoman; in all that Sarah hath said unto thee, hearken unto her voice; for in Isaac shall thy seed be called.
13 And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed.
14 And Abraham rose up early in the morning, and took bread, and a bottle of water, and gave it unto Hagar, putting it on her shoulder, and the child, and sent her away: and she departed, and wandered in the wilderness of Beersheba.
15 And the water was spent in the bottle, and she cast the child under one of the shrubs.
16 And she went, and sat her down over against him a good way off, as it were a bowshot: for she said, Let me not see the death of the child. And she sat over against him, and lift up her voice, and wept.

God here told Abraham to hearken to his 1st wife and put away his second and not to be too tore up about it.......?

Ezra 10 - And Ezra the priest stood up, and said unto them, Ye have transgressed, and have taken strange wives, to increase the trespass of Israel.
11 Now therefore make confession unto the LORD God of your fathers, and do his pleasure: and separate yourselves from the people of the land, and from the strange wives.
12 Then all the congregation answered and said with a loud voice, As thou hast said, so must we do.
13 But the people are many, and it is a time of much rain, and we are not able to stand without, neither is this a work of one day or two: for we are many that have transgressed in this thing..........
19 And they gave their hands that they would put away their wives; and being guilty, they offered a ram of the flock for their trespass..........
44 All these had taken strange wives: and some of them had wives by whom they had children.

Then here, even though there were wives and children involved there was still a right and a wrong that had to be obeyed before the situation would be made right.

I fully admit that both of these situations dispensationally do not apply, but am only trying to say that according to Scripture there are some things more important than whether a family stays together or not.

I am totally not unsympathetic, but also am not going to ignore the fact that our thoughts are not God's and we have to allow for that when considering these things.

Japan is a very hard place to win souls because basically one has to totally forsake their families when they convert. They are shunned and the family has nothing to do with them. It's as if they never existed. While actually this is an opposite situation to the one presented, it still is a very very sad situation but it is still the right thing to do to get saved. Sometimes there are conversions but that is as far as it goes and that conversion is kept a secret because so as not to be ostracized. Is it right to accept the gift of salvation and yet remain quiet and never grow in the Lord because you fear the fall-out?

[Amanda S.]

I Cor 7:2 Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

I would like to point to you all these 2 little words that carry big meaning.

Have is present tense. To have something is to posess something. Present tense. To maintain something. Present tense. Right now.

How many wives should a man HAVE? One. Why? To avoid fornication.

How many husbands should a woman HAVE? One. Why? To avoid fornication.

[Shofar]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

I still do not have an answer I am happy with...

This idea that something is wrong...is not God's will...was not God's plan from the beginning...IS not God's plan now or ever...is ok because of the consequences are just disastrous is not sitting well with me. But given that the consequences ARE disastrous I don't feel comfortable coming down hard on the "offenders"...

It reminds me of instances of an alcoholics or drug addicts that are converted. It is right that they quit their substance abuses...Do I expect them to quit and never turn back? No, not really...Should they? Of course...Can they? Not in every case...

Being in a family where everyone of my truly saved extended family smoked I can understand the hold these things can have on you.

The same can be true for polygamist marriages and the fall-out from leaving their families.

Pam, I liked your comparison of your marriage to your husband but there is nothing to suggest we should divorce because we were out of God's will when we married (1 man 1 wife). The same can be said for other sins...When we are saved we are not told to fix all the things we did wrong before.

But knowing how the Bible is very clear as to what it considers a marriage is a polygamist living in fornication when he keeps his wives and what / if any bearing does that have on the church and the other Christians/polygamists.

We need to establish -

Truth

Sin

Repentance

Being very careful to heed this verse:

Isaiah 5:20 Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!

Because we are all sinners and have departed from wholly keeping to the Commandments of God in heaven and the Ceremonial Law that Moses wrote, we have no say to judge others. LORD Jesus stated that clearly that unless we are completely free of sin ourselves, who are we to cast stones at another? Also, the Word of God is clear to understand so long as the words read are defined as the LORD placed them and not by the presumption of men's vanity. Example, the word "fornication" in recent days is coined by many to be just exclusive to sexuality; however, the original intent was not exclusively just that, but far more toward the worship of other gods other than the LORD God of Israel. Committing whoredom and fornication to other gods is a serious matter and is bad news for anyone to do.

but in relation to the original subject, I have read the answer mentioned earlier in this thread, our LORD's original intent is the sure way to approach this matter, but if the gentiles or benders of the Word of God will not hear after a warning is given by they in Christ Jesus and continue to be rebellious to the will of God in heaven, then their continued actions will be between them and the LORD on the day of judgement.

[Amanda S.]

Bro. Shofar,

Excellent post. I couldn't agree more.