[Brother Tim]

I've never had any problem in interpreting this passage when viewed in context with the surrounding verses. Jesus is simply criticizing them for choking on the tiny rules (straining at swallowing), meaning that they put great effort into following the (comparatively) insignificant requirements, while at the same time there was no effort made with the "weightier matters of the law" (easily swallowing the camel). No Greek needed. Seems like common sense to me, I didn't even have to strain to understand.

I haven't read Will's article, but was expect that it was far more "scholarly" in a good way.

[Steven Avery]

Hi Folks,

Originally Posted by Steven

"A house divided against itself...". You have no settled authority, your authorities contradict each other, and thus your house of version babble cannot stand.

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

verses out of context to smear us? I am not demon-possessed.

Since you do not seem to understand my sharing here, I will go a bit further.

The kingdoms of hasatan are divided against themselves. e.g. There are 1000 new age counterfeits of the Lord Jesus Christ, false messiahs, and each one contradicts each other. While otherwise agreeing on "many paths to God" they do agree on one thing, do not follow the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ and given in purity and simplicity and perfection in the Bible. Jesus has shown them to be spiritual thieves and robbers and the revelation of the Lord Jesus Christ is very exclusionary, no counterfeits need apply.

There are 1000 Bible versions that contradict with one another. They do not know if the resurrection account of Mark is scripture, they do not assert that "God was manifest in the flesh ..." they are confused right and left with obvious and blatant errors. Generally their proponents only agree on one thing .. the Received Text and specifically the King James Bible cannot be the pure and perfect word of God. The pure Bible is too accurate and holy and majestic for them and the word would have too much authority.

Yes, we do see this distance, rebellion, confusion, as a fog from the deceiver over the minds of men.

Yet you embrace the many conflicting, divided authorities, they all have authority over you, even when they clash and contradict ! How can such confusion be ?

Now this does not at all mean that you personally are 'demon-posessed' (that concept never entered my mind, scripture quotation can be conceptually accurate without being contextually identical), however you have willingly bought into a deception that God has contradictory authorities, you somehow convince yourself that the versions divided are your authority.

Shalom,
Steven Avery

[pbiwolski]

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

I have many versions of God's Word and am under the authority of all of them.

How can you be under the authority of something that you can correct? The "authorities" that you claim to submit to dissagree on every page...

Doesn't this make you the FINAL authority and therefore a hypocrite (v.25!)?

Well...it has been 12 hours and no one has given even one bible verse/passage that proves that the KJV is the only Bible we should use today. Don't you even have biblical proof that demonstrates that we are to have one translation per language? I will give you 12 more hours. At that time, I will give you biblical proof that the KJVOnly position is wrong.

Due to the dogmatism here, your position is an easy thing to prove biblically isn't it?

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

Well...it has been 12 hours and no one has given even one bible verse/passage that proves that the KJV is the only Bible we should use today. Don't you even have biblical proof that demonstrates that we are to have one translation per language? I will give you 12 more hours. At that time, I will give you biblical proof that the KJVOnly position is wrong.

Due to the dogmatism here, your position is an easy thing to prove biblically isn't it?

I'll take a quick stab at this.

Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

I believe it was for about 250 years we had the KJB before any of the MV's came to be. 1881 correct? I believe for 250 years the priesthood of believers had the pure Word's of God. With the drastic differences in the MV's we have to be able to determine that one is true and the other is not. For us to say the KJB is not pure and preserved we would have to say that Psalms 12:6-7 is not a faithful promise of God and that for 250 years we did not have God's pure Word's. I believe God and that He is faithful in keeping all of His promises.

For us to say the KJB is not pure and preserved we would have to say that Psalms 12:6-7 is not a faithful promise of God and that for 250 years we did not have God's pure Word's. I believe God and that He is faithful in keeping all of His promises.

This passage speaks about preserving the "poor" in a "wicked world." See the subject in Psalm 12:1 and vs 5. "Them" in verse 7 is the antecedent of "poor" in verse 5.

For sake of argument, if you take that passage as a proof of preservation, what do you do with God's Word before David composed the Psalm? It clearly states " thou shalt preserve them FROM this generation for ever." Are you comfortable with God's word not being preserved BEFORE David wrote this? I'm not.

[pbiwolski]

The greatest proof of the holiness of the King James Bible (apart from it's text in the eyes of a believer) is seen in hindsight. No, Paul never directly referenced the year 1611 as an advent of anything, nor did the apostles tell the early church to be patient for the coming of the A.V..

But what we do know is that the word of God liveth and abideth forever, and that the words of Jesus Christ shall not pass away. Being born again by this incorruptible seed, the word of God, we believers have the Author within us bearing witness to His truth (thy word is truth).

If a believer is deceived regarding this truth, many factors could be at work. One, in Christ's parable, it was Satan that cometh immediately and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts. Surely he is very alive and interested in polluting what God has kept pure, and removing/replacing what God promised would stay.

Another, and I believe the biggest reason for the confusion for so many is found in Ezekiel 14:1-9.

1. Then came certain of the elders of Israel unto me, and sat before me.
2. And the word of the LORD came unto me, saying,
3. Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be enquired of at all by them?
4. Therefore speak unto them, and say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Every man of the house of Israel that setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to the prophet; I the LORD will answer him that cometh according to the multitude of his idols;
5. That I may take the house of Israel in their own heart, because they are all estranged from me through their idols.
6. Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Repent, and turn yourselves from your idols; and turn away your faces from all your abominations.
7. For every one of the house of Israel, or of the stranger that sojourneth in Israel, which separateth himself from me, and setteth up his idols in his heart, and putteth the stumblingblock of his iniquity before his face, and cometh to a prophet to enquire of him concerning me; I the LORD will answer him by myself:
8. And I will set my face against that man, and will make him a sign and a proverb, and I will cut him off from the midst of my people; and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
9. And if the prophet be deceived when he hath spoken a thing, I the LORD have deceived that prophet, and I will stretch out my hand upon him, and will destroy him from the midst of my people Israel.

Notice that God is deceiving His people/prophets because of a heart condition.

And believing the book all comes down to that. Proof texts, promises, and publishers are all void if God sees an "idol" in the heart. He will keep you from believing His book, for He has the right to do so.

So many "worship" their scholarship, some the opinions of those highly esteemed among men, and others find the idol to be a stubborn and unyielding spirit to what God has used and continues to use over the last 400 years.

Does this shoe fit?

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

This passage speaks about preserving the "poor" in a "wicked world." See the subject in Psalm 12:1 and vs 5. "Them" in verse 7 is the antecedent of "poor" in verse 5.

For sake of argument, if you take that passage as a proof of preservation, what do you do with God's Word before David composed the Psalm? It clearly states " thou shalt preserve them FROM this generation for ever." Are you comfortable with God's word not being preserved BEFORE David wrote this? I'm not.

If this passage is about preserving the "poor" in a "wicked world" then why does it say

Psalms 12:6-7 The words of the LORD are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times. Thou shalt keep them, O LORD, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.

seems as though the subject is described in this passage, I don't have to look at Psalms 12:1 to find the subject of Psalms 12:6-7

Oh and what do I do with God's Word before David?? I thought we were suppose to be sharpening iron?

Ok, this is what I do. God has revealed Himself to the faithful from the beginning. God's revelation is progressive. Once the writings, (the inspired writings) of the Apostles were complete, the Cannon was complete. No more new revelations. The faithful have always had God's Word. and like I said for 250 years the faithful had the KJB. The original textual critics, westcott and hort decided it was time to change God's Holy Word and this happened in 1881 and now we have what over 100 english translations, some don't even resemble at all the Word of God.

Oh and what do I do with God's Word before David?? I thought we were suppose to be sharpening iron?

It is a fair question. I am asking what you do with God's Word before this? Was it preserved? Because, if you use this as a proof text of preservation, then you must say that it was not preserved until "this generation" in David's time.

now we have what over 100 english translations, some don't even resemble at all the Word of God.

True.

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

It is a fair question. I am asking what you do with God's Word before this? Was it preserved?

Yes, God said He would preserve His Word's through every generation. I believe Him. Once the cannon was complete, the Bible has been preserved through the many faithful that copied the mss.