Originally Posted by jerry

Having the freewill to make a choice doesn't mean God didn't do the work to enlighten us to make that choice. The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and unrighteousness and need for the Saviour - but man is still given the freewill to choose to accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation - which I have shown in various passages.

If drawing in itself meant they would be saved (according to your theology), then everyone would be saved - because Jesus said if He was crucified He would draw all men unto Himself. I believe it means that He would give everyone an opportunity to hear the Gospel and have the choice to be saved.

Amen!! I praise the Lord for His conviction and His light and His drawing!!!

Apparently we are a limited group!

Amen!! I praise the Lord for His conviction and His light and His drawing!!!

apparently you praise yourself if it the conviction and drawing did not save you..??

What is "duh" and "lol" all about? Sounds a bit obnoxious.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures...

BTW: There are 1595 "if"'s in the Holy Bible. It sure sounds like we have a choice. I've chosen to receive Jesus Christ. Therefore I'm a saved, born again, regenerated, consecrate, blood washed, Spirit filled, sanctified child of the King.

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;
4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures...

Duh where does paul say he had a choice ? Any spiritually discerning person knows that paul did not make a choice on the road of damascus..

acts 9:

2And desired of him letters to Damascus to the synagogues, that if he found any of this way, whether they were men or women, he might bring them bound unto Jerusalem.

3And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven:

4And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

5And he said, Who art thou, Lord? And the Lord said, I am Jesus whom thou persecutest: it is hard for thee to kick against the pricks.

6And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.

7And the men which journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice, but seeing no man.

8And Saul arose from the earth; and when his eyes were opened, he saw no man: but they led him by the hand, and brought him into Damascus.

9And he was three days without sight, and neither did eat nor drink.

10And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel

Paul says he recieved because it was given to him revealed to him

gal 1:

16To reveal his Son in me, that I might preach him among the heathen; immediately I conferred not with flesh and blood:

paul does not teach that freewill garbage, he says he was saved by Gods will

gal 1:

4Who gave himself for our sins, that he might deliver us from this present evil world, according to the will of God and our Father:

Not mans freewill decesion..

Your whole argument has been mancentered and man glorifying..you are a servant of men not christ sir..

Man - you have got to be one of the most insulting people I have met on a message board in a long time. How about some common courtesy, regardless of where you differ from others here?

Originally Posted by jerry

Man - you have got to be one of the most insulting people I have met on a message board in a long time. How about some common courtesy, regardless of where you differ from others here?

oh but its ok to insult God with all this freewill stuff, when its an insult to His greatness..

To insult christ by saying in and of itself his death saves no one..

To insult the holy ghost in saying man has freewill and disregard the fact that man is spiritually dead until His Mighty work is done..

Just some scriptures which I believe show that God gives us choice as to whether to follow Him or the enemy.

Deuteronomy 30: 19I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Proverbs 1: 29For that they hated knowledge, and did not choose the fear of the LORD:

Proverbs 3: 31Envy thou not the oppressor, and choose none of his ways.

Proverbs 8: 10Receive my instruction, and not silver; and knowledge rather than choice gold. [Here obviously he is being instructed to follow truth rather than the ways of the world...hence there is a choice.]

Isaiah 28: 12To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. [If the people did not have the choice whether to listen or not why would God send His prophets to teach and exhort? Why would God waste His time? God never wastes His time, it's impossible.]

Jeremiah 17: 23But they obeyed not, neither inclined their ear, but made their neck stiff, that they might not hear, nor receive instruction. [Obedience denotes a choice.]

Zechariah 1: 4Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and from your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the LORD.

Matthew 24: 43But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up. [The goodman of the house obviously had the choice whether to watch for the Lord or not.]

John 11: 40Jesus saith unto her, Said I not unto thee, that, if thou wouldest believe, thou shouldest see the glory of God? [Belief or non-belief is a choice, if it weren't a choice would Jesus not have said: I told you that WHEN you believed you should see the glory of God].

Acts 17: 27That they should seek the Lord, if haply they might feel after him, and find him, though he be not far from every one of us: [Seeking the Lord is a choice...why seek what we already have, why feel after something we already have?]

Acts 28: 24And some believed the things which were spoken, and some believed not.

These are just some scriptures for consideration.

Blessings.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by jerry

Isaiah 55:6-7 Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon.

This is another Calvinism-destroying verse. People keep saying there are "paradoxes" about predestination in the Bible. There are none. Calvin was wrong and so was Arminius. The above verse clearly explains the sequence of events with a hardening heart. God offers to all, but when people reject, they are given over to their reprobate mind, as is explained in Romans 1:28. "While he may be found." What does that mean in a Calvinist system where God can never be found? It's yet another verse, like Revelation 22:17, that Calvinism makes void and meaningless.

This was the turning point for me away from Calvinism. I got tired of trying to explain away invitations by God to obey and freely come. Calvinism makes those invitations utterly meaningless and totally disingenuous. We're supposed to believe the words of God, not pretend they have no meaning.

[Diligent]

beloved57: Please read the forum faq. By any reasonable definition, your silly personal attacks and namecalling is obnoxious behavior. If you would like to keep posting, behave yourself. First and final warning.