[chette777]

what are we today to judge ourselves for in light of the context of 1 Cor 11?

Now the Lords body would be not only his physical body we are to remember he sacrificed, but also the spiritual body of which we are part of. so in light of that should we judge ourselves as to our attitude or lack of proper use of gifts that are meant to edify the body? How we treat other Christians whom are his body? As well as misusing the freedom we have because of the sacrifice of Christ's body for us? such as walking willfully in sinfulness?

What are we to examine and judge today in the context of these passages?

I ask because I would rather teach a truth than a tradition. which is what it seems we are by asking people to examine themselves before taking the Lord supper.

[Fredoheaven]

When I accepted Christ as my personal Saviour, I did realized that I am a sinner or repented of my sins and confess Jesus in my heart.

Simply, I didn't confess my sins, I repented of my sin. I didn't confess my sins but I did confess Jesus to be my Saviour.

Acts 20:21 Testifying both to the Jews, and also to the Greeks, repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ.
Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

As an assurance, I know I am saved from

1. the Penalty of sin (Past)
2. the Power of sin (Present)
3. the Presence of sin(Future)

Yes we are complete in Him because Christ completed it in the cross of Calvary. "Nothing would I bring unto Him simply to thy Cross I cling". "Nothing but the blood of Jesus".

1 Corinthians 8:12 But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ.

Thanks to God that I am not offended but if...

[Winman]

Winman,

To what was Simon the sorcerer saved? he had not received the Holy Ghost and was wanting to purchase the power to give it to others but he himself had not received it.

Why did the people in Samaria need to have hands laid on them from the Apostles if they were preaching the Gospel of Grace as you believe they did? if indeed they were receiving the Gospel of grace putting hands on someone to receive the Holy Ghost was wrong because under the gospel of grace you receive the Holy Ghost the moment you believe. Eph 1:13, 14 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.

or could it be they were not preaching the gospel of Grace but of the Gospel of the Kingdom? which is the Gospel of Acts 8. I refer you to Georges study on right division of Acts.

Chette, this passage creates much more difficulty for you than me. You are correct, Simon had not received the Holy Spirit, neither had anyone else in Samaria. But notice they were all baptized in the name of Lord Jesus.

Acts 8:14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:
15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:
16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
17 Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.
18 And when Simon saw that through laying on of the apostles' hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

Verse 16 gives you a problem, because you believe the Holy Spirit was received through baptism in Acts 2:38

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

But in Acts 8, these believers were all baptized in the name of Jesus, yet they had not received the Holy Spirit. So this argues against what you have previously said. You will probably argue they were not Jews. But that won't work either, for what of Saul (Paul) in the next chapter?

And we see this again in Acts 9 when Ananias lays hands on Saul (Paul) that he might receive his sight and be filled with the Holy Ghost. But Paul was baptized afterward. And Paul is a Jew.

Acts 9:17 And Ananias went his way, and entered into the house; and putting his hands on him said, Brother Saul, the Lord, even Jesus, that appeared unto thee in the way as thou camest, hath sent me, that thou mightest receive thy sight, and be filled with the Holy Ghost. 18 And immediately there fell from his eyes as it had been scales: and he received sight forthwith, and arose, and was baptized.

So here Saul (Paul) received his sight and was filled with the Holy Ghost when Ananias laid hands on him, and afterward
was baptized.

Then in Acts 10 the Holy Ghost fell on Cornelius, his kinsmen, and near friends by simply hearing the gospel.

Acts 10:44 While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

So, these believers also did not need be baptized to receive the Holy Ghost.

And there is absolutely no indication that any of the believers in Acts 8, 9, and 10 were hearing a different message than those in Acts 2. But these were not Jews.

In fact, Acts 11 confirms it was exactly the same for Cornelius as it was for the believers in Acts 2.

Acts 11:15 And as I began to speak, the Holy Ghost fell on them, as on us at the beginning. 16 Then remembered I the word of the Lord, how that he said, John indeed baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost.
17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

First, verse 15 shows they received the Holy Ghost by hearing the gospel in Acts 2, not baptism. Verse 18 shows that this gospel was for forgiveness of sins (repentance unto life), not the restoration of the kingdom to Israel.

It is very clear if you read carefully. And I have already pointed out that Jesus told the apostles it was not for them to know when the kingdom would be restored to Israel in Acts 1. And I cannot believe the Holy Spirit would inspire Peter to preach this restoration of the kingdom upon their "repentance for killing Jesus" (what you have said repeatedly) immediately after the Lord said this.

Where, in all of the book of Acts, is it said that the kingdom would be restored to Israel if they repent of killing Jesus? Where? Show me the verses.

[Forrest]

Hi Brothers. I wanted you to know that I am working on a more detailed explanation to my posts on this thread and some of your legitimate concerns and issues you raised. I'm not ignoring you.

As some of you know, I have Multiple Sclerosis and it's very difficult for me to type and sit in my wheelchair for a long time. I peck away with one finger like a bird eating seed. It's really kind of funny to look at. Anyway, I look forward to reading more of your comments on this issue and please know that I love you brethren (and sistren) in the LORD.

1 John 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.

We love you too brother Forrest, God bless...

[chette777]

no problem Forrest.

did anyone catch Winman using Acts 11 to prove those in Act 2 and 3 we saved under the gospel of Grace through faith alone? talk about wrongly joining the word of truth.

I am not even going to answer a man who refuses to rightly divide the word of truth. disobedience is subtle sometimes.

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Winman

We do have an example of a saved believer who is told to pray and ask forgiveness for a sin after conversion. It is Simon who was beforetime a sorcerer in Acts 8.

22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

23 For I perceive that thou art in the gall of bitterness, and in the bond of iniquity.

24 Then answered Simon, and said, Pray ye to the Lord for me, that none of these things which ye have spoken come upon me.

So, here we have a believer who sinned, and Peter told him to repent of his wickedness, and pray to God for forgiveness.

Greetings Brother Winman. Thanks for bringing that passage and verse to our (my) attention. I may be wrong on this but I don't see this as "confessing" a sinful thought for the specific purpose of being forgiven of sin and cleansed from all unrighteousness. I continue to recall the scriptures that teach we are forgiven and made the righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.

Ephesians 1:7 In whom we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, according to the riches of his grace;

Colossians 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:

Colossians 2:13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

1 John 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.

Let me say right off that this COULD BE understood by others that forgiveness is always conditional to the confession of our sins--over and over again. Personally I don't understand the above verses to mean that.

Concerning your reference to this verse:

Acts 8:22 Repent therefore of this thy wickedness, and pray God, if perhaps the thought of thine heart may be forgiven thee.

After Simon is told to pray God, I believe the words "if," "perhaps," "heart," and "may be" are all relevant in this specific verse and helps us to understand that the word forgiven means pray that God will help him get rid of the thought. It perhaps, may or may not occur--perhaps.

In my humble (and I mean that, brother) opinion, I believe that when we confess our sins prior to receiving and believing in Christ, that is to say we agree with God and say with our mouth that we have sins (for "If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us" 1 John 1:8) then HE is faithful to forgive us of our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

No "if," "perhaps," or "may be" about it. The issue to me was Simon needing a change of heart, not simply a one time "quick fix" and reapplication of Christ's blood through confession of his sinful thought so he could be forgiven of that thought until the next time. Peter was obviously not saying all you have to do is pray, confess, and God will forgive you.

I often pray asking God to remove (forgive) sinful thoughts or attitudes. But I'll be honest with you, brother, the things I should do, I don't, and the things I should not do, I do. O wretched man that I am! I thank God through Jesus Christ that I am delivered once and for all from this body of death wrought by sin and that my fellowship with HIM, righteousness in Christ, and forgiveness for sins is never conditional to my confession of those sins now that I am washed in the precious blood of Jesus Christ his Son that cleanseth me from all sin.

We (and others) may never agree on the confession issue. There are many things we could address regarding this issue. I'll pray God and perhaps, may be, if my heart is stirred, and if I am led of the Spirit, I'll write a post on confessing sin.

For anyone delving into this issue of confession and fellowship as it applies to our daily walk with Christ, you may want to check out this thread also...
http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1343&page=3

[Winman]

Chette said;

no problem Forrest.

did anyone catch Winman using Acts 11 to prove those in Act 2 and 3 we saved under the gospel of Grace through faith alone? talk about wrongly joining the word of truth.

I am not even going to answer a man who refuses to rightly divide the word of truth. disobedience is subtle sometimes.

Nice Chette. Truth is, you cannot answer it.

Acts 11:17 Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God? 18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

This verse is very straightforward and easy to undertstand. Peter is saying the Gentiles received the like gift as they did in Acts 1 "who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ".

This proves that these Gentiles heard the same gospel that was preached to the Jews in Acts 1. It was the gospel to believe on the Lord Jesus for forgiveness of sins and to receive everlasting life, not the restoration of the kingdom of Israel.

Do a little word study. Look up the word "gospel" in the book of Acts. The very first mention is Acts 8:25

Acts 8:25 And they, when they had testified and preached the word of the Lord, returned to Jerusalem, and preached the gospel in many villages of the Samaritans.

This is the very first mention of any gospel in the book of Acts. And it says Peter and John preached it to the Samaritans. It is after the stoning of Stephen.

There is no mention of the "gospel of the kingdom" in the entire book of Acts. Study and see for yourself. It is not mentioned even once.

Now look up the word "kingdom" in the book of Acts. You will find in all instances except Acts 1:6, that it is always used as the "kingdom of God". The one exception is Acts 1:6 where it says "kingdom to Israel". This is when the apostles asked Jesus if the kingdom would be restored to Israel "at this time", to which the Lord said:

Acts 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel? 7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. 8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

So, you can falsely accuse me of not rightly dividing the word all you want, doesn't make it so. The fact is, there is nowhere in Acts where the apostles are preaching the restoration of Israel if the Jews repent of killing Jesus.

I know this is in the wrong thread, but I wanted to answer your baseless accusation. I challange you to show me even one verse in the book of Acts that says the Lord will restore the kingdom to Israel if the Jews repent of killing Jesus.

Show me the verse.

[chette777]

I could but I wont.

I am not FALSELY accusing you of not rightly dividing. I am accusing you of wrongly joining scripture to prove a point. when I see people do that that is it I wont deal with them any more. it is like dealing with a JW. you can't get anywhere with someone who has a preconceived view of scripture and who wrongly joins the word of truth

So I didn't even pay to much attention to post 29.

sorry I bow out you will have to refer questions of the kingdom presentation in the book of Acts to George