Beltfed,
May I ask to whom you are speaking? Your reply to whoever doesn't make sense. Both Jerry & I are not of your country and I can assure you that we pray with you, "God Bless America". Well, I think Jerry would.

Grace

[Paladin54]

Christopher Columbus was NOT a follower of God. He was a reedy tyrant. He is resposible for the deaths of so many Indians. Where he went, populations of Indians decreased to only a tenth. They worked the Indians and made them find gold, and if they did not find gold, they would whip them. One every ffew years, the men and wives could meet, but they were so exausted in every way that they did not pro-create. Columbus was no Christian.

The colonists acknowledged that they were the subordinates of England-Jamestown was officially founded in the name of King James I (King james of the AV). The colonists paid tribute to England, and we were protected by them, and we were forced to pay taxes that were, while brutal, not nearly as bad as the taxes those in London had to pay.

[QUOTE=John1717;97]

....................................what does that mean? QUOTE]


What's your point?

That ungodly men founded this country? Yes that's true
That God did not use this for his purpose? Yes he did
That the USA is an ungodly nation? Yes that's true


When Jesus said "if you love me keep my commandments" he is saying "keep my words unchanged."

We are to obey those in power over us for one reason. God put them in power to further his own will even though they may be lost vile men. We are to trust in him not man whether king or not.

The good that came from the founding of this nation is the people he has called out to worship him in spirit and truth. Thus far it has been a safe haven for his people, but it might not always be so.

[stephanos]

This is why us Anabaptists refrain from any participation in the political process (we always say that we do our voting on our knees) and do not allow those serving in the military to become or remain members of our churches. We believe we are sojourners/pilgrims in this world. We serve the 'king' by paying our taxes, but we will never consent to be involved in the taking of human life. There is to much at stake, and we've learned (just read the account of the 16th century Anabaptists) that when we invovle ourselves with mans government (by not participating in state churches, and the other parts of the political process) that our blood is at stake. Although we are not afraid to take upon ourselves this baptism of blood, for the blood of the martyr's is seed, we are afraid that our witness will be ruined by our getting involved in a poltical process that is not governed by our King, nor one that is of our Kingdom.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by stephanos

and do not allow those serving in the military to become or remain members of our churches.

Chapter and verse?

[Paladin54]

"These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,

An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren."

Proverbs 6:16-19

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Chapter and verse?

We believe that one cannot 'resist not evil' by being involved in killing our enemies. I don't think we make much of it than that.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by stephanos

We believe that one cannot 'resist not evil' by being involved in killing our enemies. I don't think we make much of it than that.

So you admit you have no Biblical basis for denying them fellowship?

[PB1789]

Originally Posted by Diligent

So you admit you have no Biblical basis for denying them fellowship?

Diligent:---Bingo! { See what happens when you start a website and allow people on the boards-(like the 1717 person and fellows) to post "stuff'..? Feel free to crack the whip more often on here, as it seems to me that there are folks in internet land that should not be trusted with sharp objects or motor vehicles, let alone a keyboard and computer! }

----- ---- ---- --- --- --- ------ ------ ----- ----- ------

Stephanos and anyone else of the "pacifists-goooodd/America-baaad" mentality: The very fact that you are in the State of Washington posting your stuff is because MEN in UNIFORM with WEAPONS have KILLED enemies of this Nation and our way of life (aka-The 1st Amendment to the Constitution). At the very least you and your group should do is show some concern and help out the Military folks and their families in your area.

Christ Jesus NEVER told a Soldier to quit being a Soldier of his nation. The Old Testament is replete with accounts of The Lord God Almighty commanding the Israelites to assemble together (every able-bodied/sound-of-mind male) and to fight and kill the enemies of Israel!

Do a "good work" and this week visit a V.A. Hospital or the Base Hospital at Ft. Lewis and bring a wounded/blinded soldier/vet a care package--or volunteer to read a book (The Psalms?) and thank people that are helping to keep the moslem jihadists away from your house...

Read these links, if you don't think that a Christian can be a Soldier. Read them for some encouragement.

http://www.infantryassn.com/awards.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Saint_Maurice

[Brother Tim]

The simplest answer to this argument is to point out that the only time the issue was directly addressed in the NT, and the opportunity to make it clear that believers were not to be soldiers, the instruction given speaks for itself.

Luke 3:14 And the soldiers likewise demanded of him, saying, And what shall we do? And he said unto them, Do violence to no man, neither accuse any falsely; and be content with your wages.

John could have settled the argument by saying, "Leave the army." Instead, he admonished them to do their jobs honorably.