[Debau]

Originally Posted by Luke

Is this really what one needs to do to be saved? Do they need to actually be a disciple of Christ, by forsaking and following?

It's interesting to note that the word disciple does not even appear after the book of Acts.

Does a sinner really need to FORSAKE SIN first, then TURN?

Doesn't that wording eliminate the process of sanctification, and turn justification into works?

sure does

Salvation is

TURN from unbelief to God in believing the Gospel. That's it.

Sanctification SHOULD follow salvation, whereby we repent of our sins as a continual process and become holier, and while this does prove our salvation in some sense (to the world), it does not save us.

God bless

Sounds like you got it! Pretty simple.

Acts 16:30-35
"And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.
And when he had brought them into his house, he set meat before them, and rejoiced, believing in God with all his house."

Guessing they spake along I Cor 15:1-4

Not putting justification and sanctification in their rightly divided place perverts the Gospel.

Lord Bless you too!

[Luke]

I posted this on another forum recently

I think I have found the best definition of what Biblical Repentance is, in the Gospel of Luke.

Disregarding the fact that the Four Gospels are primarily Kingdom Gospel, these two examples Jesus gives tell the people what it is that they must repent of, or perish

Luk 13:1 There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.
Luk 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?
Luk 13:3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
Luk 13:4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
Luk 13:5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

Jesus doesn't tell them to repent of their sins.

These people were telling Jesus about these GREAT SINNERS in Galilee, comparing themselves to them, to which Jesus responds "you think they are such great sinners because they suffered for some sin? You are a sinner too. Repent (admit it), or perish"

He then follows it up with another example of people dying as punishment because of their sins and says "Do you think these are great sinners because they were punished? Repent, or perish".

Jesus tells them "Nay". In other words, these men were not worse sinners than anyone else. Everyone is a sinner.

Jesus is telling the people speaking to Him to repent of their SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS. They were comparing themselves to others in order to establish their own righteousness. Jesus is saying that they aren't any better. They are sinners too. Repent of the self righteousness and admit you are a sinner, or perish with them.

Repentance, according to these verses, is repentance from 1. self righteousness, 2. trusting our own way, 3. establishing our own righteousness.

In Christ
Luke

Originally Posted by Luke

Repentance, according to these verses, is repentance from 1. self righteousness, 2. trusting our own way, 3. establishing our own righteousness.

In Christ
Luke

In repentance unto salvation we must also turn from the idols, that have kept us in our own will in order to turn to Jesus and the will of God. This is true saving faith that causes us to change our mind from our own selfish will to turning to God and believing Him enough to say God your will be done. This is just another way to say what you just said that we must repent from self righteousness, trusting our own way and repent of our own righteousness. This is what is meant when someone says that you must repent and trust alone in Jesus Christ for your eternal life. Repentance and faith go hand in hand.

I agree there are two types of repentance, we as believers must also repent of daily sin. We are still sinners and do not lose our salvation when we are struggling against sin. We will live the victorious Christian life if we do struggle against the sin and crucify the flesh.

Repentance, the traditional view is “you must” or else!

Scary: Yes, for the uneducated in knowledge and understanding in the word of God.

To really get a handle on salvation and understand what it really means, one has to have an understanding of what God’s intended purpose for mankind was.

First creation of God was to make a vessel in His image, meaning to think and act like Him.
That He accomplished, in creating Adam, a living soul.

However that was an inherent problem. There can be only but one God!

To exist other than the one God means death to the other lesser god.

Hence, death came to our spirits via the fruits of knowledge.

The day we ate, our eyes were open and we became as gods, knowing both good and evil.

From that dead spirit is what salvation is about!

First, we didn’t have a choice in the matter, for knowledge we must all partake of.

Second, salvation from it is a matter of choice to the extent that we can become knowledgeable, but otherwise, salvation is a gift granted to all souls born in the flesh.

Jesus was that hope and is that hope to all mankind, for God’s second creation was to liberate the first creation by the second.

The whole vision, picture of the bible and it’s message is that God the creator created, redeemed His creation solely on His own will and has told us about it.

His gift to us? Life!

So regardless of what experience mankind has on this earth, life is granted now, or as an end result.

The now part is reaching out for the fruit of the tree of Life while yet in the flesh.

If you gain that knowledge via the tree of Life, then you are a new creation, a new generation of souls not tainted with death.

But if one fails to reach out to the tree of life, then everything of the first creation remains the same.

Which means, that many have lived and died without ever learning in the flesh who Jesus was.
That is why Jesus had to go to the pit, to declare to those souls in prison, their liberty.

If we, who have privilege to this knowledge and fail to extend to others the knowledge of the gift which belongs to them, then we would have failed to promote the will of God.

From the seed of Christ, the promise is that they would number as the stars, giving glory to the one God, and creator of all there is, as we are the many membered body, of God in Christ by which only can we continue to exist after this life is over.

Repentance, in the old testament meant to adhere to the law or else, repentance in the new testament is, rearrange your thinking, accepting as a gift, life from God.

By so doing, Jesus finds rest in your soul, abides there as His temple, and gives direction to your daily living by convicting you of any trespasses, at the same time giving you power and strength to overcome them, but only if you will.

The power you have to choose is God given, for you and I are as gods, in His image.

Rather choose those things that belong to the heavenly realm over those things that are earthly, for the rewards are greater to them that strive, but the joy of the journey is well worth it.
For one day, when this life is over, we shall forever be with our Lord in total ecstasy!

Run well the race then as Paul states, for the rewards are good and worthy of all consideration.

Peace>>>AJ

[Cody1611]

Thanks for posting this thread, pbiwolski. This subject had been puzzling me for quite some time. I believe we are saved by faith, plus nothing(Ephesians 2:8-9). I believe the only repenting we have to do is to repent from our unbelief. I believe when we get saved and see where our sin was taking us(Hell), we will repent because it is a command that our Lord Jesus Christ wants us to do, in order to have close fellowship with us. Although, if we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ and later on in our life quit repenting, I don't believe we would lose our Salvation, but we would lose our fellowship with God. When a Christian fails to repent, he will get chastisement from God and might even expect God to take him out because of his lack of obedience to Him. To really grasp this subject and understand it, we need to learn how to rightly divide the word(2 Timothy 2:15).

I enjoyed reading your posts on this subject, Brother Luke. Your love for God and His word is an inspiration. I pray that you take rest in your Salvation and praise God for the work that has already been done on the Cross of Calvary that saves SINNERS from an Eternal Hell, which you and I deserve.

God Bless you all

[stephanos]

This is a subject I, like you all, feel is vital. I don't have the time at the moment to invest in research to back up what I am about to say. I do think however that most of you will generally agree.

For me, I always struggled with the idea that I first had to stop sinning to be saved (I don't even remotely believe this is true for us to recieve the gift of salvation). What I believe concerning the repentance that is spoken of in Scriptures that preceeds salvation is the kind that takes place in ones mind. I think this repentance is when a sinner acknowledges/realizes that they've lived in sin their whole lives, and that they have lived for themselves (in a sense as a god unto themselves), and that NOW they wish to seek God and His will and make Him their Lord and Saviour. When the individual acknowledges in their heart that they believe Jesus Christ to be the Son of God, to have shed blood on the cross of Calvary for their sins, and then to rise from the dead 3 days later, it is then that I believe they are saved. When the Christian recieves the Holy Ghost, I make no claim to know this point definitively. One thing I know for certainty is that for me, it was entirely God that turned the lights on within me in regards to who He is. It was as simple as that. One moment I was sitting watching a movie, the next I instantly realized that God was indeed real and that I had to acknowledge Him and His Son or continue on in ignorance (yes I do believe in free will, that a man can resist at this point, and that this is the reason Satan will not be saved. He does not want to be saved. His heart is thoroughly hardened against God). So the point I make concerning this pre-salvation repentance is that it is an internal event that leads a person to accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and to put their faith on Him and what He did on the Cross for their sins.

Concering the repentance after salvation: I do indeed believe that it is safe to say that repentance leads to action for a Christian. At this point the Christian knows who is Lord and Saviour, and that whether or not they acknowledge this fact as I state simply now, Jesus IS Lord of all His flock, and the true Christian will seek always to do those things that please Him. I do believe that this doesn't mean a Christian now lives entirely free from the will of the flesh (I can attest to this as a man...), however, it is the desire of the true Christian to put to death DAILY the deeds of the flesh. That when a Christian confesses their sins to Jehovah God through Jesus Christ, He is faithful to forgive us our sins. Repentance at this stage of the profession of the faith effects all aspects of a Christian life, from the way we talk, the way we dress, the way we deal with others, and the way we think. EVERY aspect of the Christians life will be affected by true repentance. Repentance has not changed from being something that happens in the heart/mind, however repentance almost always (the flesh always wars against the spirit...) ends in action as a Christian grows stronger in God's righteousness. This is what I believe is what James is referring to in his letter as faith without works as being dead.

I know some may not agree with all the points I made, this is fine, but I hope you all can appreciate that I like you struggled with this topic (yes Luke I had the same battle as you, and still do, with repentance). One thing I can attest to with certainty, is that God does love us, and that it is His desire for all men to be saved. God does look at the heart, and a humble man He will not turn away. It is enough for us to seek daily to bring glory to Him through the sacrifice of our lives lived unto Him. This is the reasonable service rendered unto the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ. Amen.

forever seeking His face,
Stephen

[Josh]

Hello all! My name is Josh, I'm new here.

This topic is very important to me as well. The Bible tells us that repentance is in the plan of salvation. Paul says is Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

So where does the repentance come in some may say? 2 Timothy 2:24-26 says "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

The Holy Bible has it's own "built in dictionary", and according to the Bible repentance is a change of mind and heart from rejecting the Gospel, to "the acknowledging of the truth", and believing the Gospel. Without this acknowledging/chang of mind/repentance, there is o salvation, for to truly accept it, you must first have a change of heart from believing the lies of the devil, to believing the truth of Jesus Christ.

May peace and grace abound,

Josh

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Josh

Hello all! My name is Josh, I'm new here.

This topic is very important to me as well. The Bible tells us that repentance is in the plan of salvation. Paul says is Romans 10:9-10 "That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

So where does the repentance come in some may say? 2 Timothy 2:24-26 says "And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will."

The Holy Bible has it's own "built in dictionary", and according to the Bible repentance is a change of mind and heart from rejecting the Gospel, to "the acknowledging of the truth", and believing the Gospel. Without this acknowledging/chang of mind/repentance, there is o salvation, for to truly accept it, you must first have a change of heart from believing the lies of the devil, to believing the truth of Jesus Christ.

May peace and grace abound,

Josh

Exactly, this is what I believe. I can just picture Peter telling people to repent of their unbelief in the Lord Jesus Christ whom they had just crucified. This is the key here, they crucified Him because their hearts were heardened in unbelief, and Peter is calling out to them to soften their hearts and change their mind towards the Truth of Jesus Christ as the Son of God, dead buried and risen! Jesus LIVES!

Thanks Josh.

A brother in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

[chette777]

Who was Peter talking to? why was he telling them to believe and be baptised in Jesus name? and who is it that beleives?

[chette777]

Why was he telling them to repent and be baptized in the name of Jesus? this should have been the reading of the 2nd question.

after answering these questions ask yourself is this the same Gospel of Grace that Paul preaches? how can you prove it if it is?