[George]

[QUOTE=Daveoldpath;3389]

Originally Posted by George

On my web page I have nearly 90 Bible lessons (70+ are mine). I only have two lessons where I reprove and rebuke a so-called Bible believer by name (The so-called “Doctrine of Submission”) and Dr. Stewart Custer (The Truth about The King James controversy"). I have not been called by God to “correct” the body of Christ. My ministry has been one of Reconciliation (if possible – 2Corinthians 5:18); and Edification (Romans 15:2). I thank God that I wasn’t called to brother Ruckman’s ministry. I would have needed skin as thick as a rhinoceros to bear up under his load.




What is your web site?

Dave

My web site is: http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/

I'm not here to promote my web page, but sometimes it is necessary to refer to it because there is not enough room on this Forum to present all of the "facts" pertaining to a particular issue.

Should you go there I hope that you will be informed and edified (I participate on this Forum to Inform; Edify; and Warn. And I hope that some of the brethren here will do the same for me)

[George]

Originally Posted by jerry

Who is getting saved in eternity, in the new heaven and earth? No one - everyone there will be saved. What that passage is indicating is that everyone who is living there will be obeying God - it is not indicating there will be rebels on the new earth at that time.

Aloha brother Jerry,

In the New Heaven and New Earth there will be three kinds of people (two (2) that are saved & one (1) unsaved - for a period of time that is)

#1. The saved Jews/Hebrews who will abide (dwell) and reign here on earth. (They are going to reign over someone - see #3 below)

#2. The Bride of Christ (saved Jews & Gentiles from the church of God - the body of Christ) who will abide in New Jerusalem with the Lord Jesus Christ.

#3. Ordinary people (subject to pain, sickness, & death) of the earth - who are born; and live; and abide here - untill such time that they are brought before God and are judged according to whether they DO God's Commandments: Revelation 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

We (the body/church) have been saved by faith in God and in His words; and already have eternal life and the "right" to enter the city. (We didn't DO His commandments; we did NOTHING to earn that "right" - Jesus did it All!)

All of the Old Testament Saints were saved by faith in God and in His words; (before the flood; after the flood; before the Law; and even during the Law). And since they too possess eternal life by faith, then they didn't: "DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city." EITHER!

But SOMEONE is going to: "DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

Since neither the saved Old Testament saints nor the saved New Testament qualify for the "they" of Revelation 22:14 then the verse must be referring to someone else. The Scriptures plainly say that SOMEONE - "they" "DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

This is called "rightly dividing" the word of truth, which God has commanded us to do: 2Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.

It is interesting to note that this particular verse is "changed" in almost all of the "new" modern corrupt bibles. I wonder why? Hmmmm?

[George]

I shall have more to say on this subject shortly. Some Sundays I can not devote the time to the Forum as on other days.

Revelation 22 is after the Great White Throne judgment in chapter 20 - all the wicked who have ever lived and died lost will have been judged by that point in time. There will be no wicked in eternity (other than those in Hell). Heaven wouldn't be much of Heaven if the wicked were still kicking around.

The Bible teaches there will be Christians that rule - actually, other than David and the apostles, I don't remember any passages that indicate any OT saint will be ruling in eternity. And it is quite possible that the Christians will only rule during the Millenium - there will be no sin in eternity, therefore no need for rulers (but that last part is my opinion).

By the time we are raptured or get to Heaven, our sin nature will be removed - therefore all who dwell in the new heavens and the new earth will be sinless. Therefore all WILL be keeping God's commandments.

[George]

Re; Jerry's post #234

Originally Posted by jerry

Revelation 22 is after the Great White Throne judgment in chapter 20 - all the wicked who have ever lived and died lost will have been judged by that point in time. There will be no wicked in eternity (other than those in Hell). Heaven wouldn't be much of Heaven if the wicked were still kicking around.

The Bible teaches there will be Christians that rule - actually, other than David and the apostles, I don't remember any passages that indicate any OT saint will be ruling in eternity. And it is quite possible that the Christians will only rule during the Millenium - there will be no sin in eternity, therefore no need for rulers (but that last part is my opinion).

Re: also you post #235

By the time we are raptured or get to Heaven, our sin nature will be removed - therefore all who dwell in the new heavens and the new earth will be sinless. Therefore all WILL be keeping God's commandments.

When we start to talk about life in eternity, we are dealing with a certain amount "speculation" (which I try to avoid like the plague - but since I brought it up ) - because the Scriptures reveal precious little about life after the Millennial reign of Christ; the Great White Throne; and the New Heavens and New Earth i.e. Eternity.

You bring up some excellent points (in regards to life in eternity - not about the "kingdoms") - which I will admit are difficult to deal with, and you may be right (specifically about life in eternity), because the Scriptures reveal precious little about life after the Millennial reign of Christ; the Great White Throne; and the New Heavens and New Earth i.e. Eternity. The following verses are why I believe the way that I do:

Genesis 22:15 And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
16 And said, By myself have I sworn, saith the LORD, for because thou hast done this thing, and hast not withheld thy son, thine only son:
17 That in blessing I will bless thee, and in multiplying I will multiply thy seed as the stars of the heaven, and as the sand which is upon the sea shore; and thy seed shall possess the gate of his enemies;
18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.

And God reaffirmed that promise in:Genesis 26:24; Exodus 32:13

Has Abraham's "seed" (The "physical" descendants {Jews/Hebrews} and the "spiritual" descendent's {Gentiles - by "faith" Galatians 3:29}) from the time of Abraham (when the promise was made) up to our present time added up to the number of stars or the sand of the sea? Obviously not.

If you were to take all of Abraham's "seed" from Abraham to today and then add all of those who will be saved in the Tribulation, plus all who will be saved in the 1,000 year Millennial Reign of Christ and total all of the saved (past-present-future) it still doesn't seem possible that they would all add up to equal the numbers of the stars or as the sand upon the sea shore.

If not, then where are they going to come from and when are they going to be "produced"? I believe that it will be in eternity.

After the events of Revelation Chapter 21 (A New Heaven; New Earth; New Jerusalem - magnificent description; The Bride; etc.) We see: Revelation 22:1 And he shewed me a pure river of water of life, clear as crystal, proceeding out of the throne of God and of the Lamb.
2 In the midst of the street of it, and on either side of the river, was there the tree of life, which bare twelve manner of fruits, and yielded her fruit every month: and the leaves of the tree were for the healing of the nations.

Who is going to be "healed" if only "saved" people are present? Who "needs" to be "healed" if everyone present is "saved"? Why is there a tree of life from which the leaves are "for the healing of the nations" - if all of the people of those "nations" are "saved"? Will we partake of this "healing"? I don't think so.

Revelation 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.
14 Blessed are they that DO his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

The Scriptural record above is clear and unambiguous: Verse 14 - SOMEONE (Who?) is going to be "Blessed" because "they" DO His Commandments! SOMEONE (Who?) is going to have the "right" to "the tree of life". WHY? BECAUSE "they" DO His Commandments! SOMEONE "may enter in through the gates into the city" BECAUSE "they" (Who?) DO His Commandments" and in DOing so earned the right to "the tree of life" - which is within the city.

On the other hand: Verse 15 - SOMEONE (Who? - Different from the "Someone" in verse 14) is WITHOUT! "They" aren't in Hell or the Lake of Fire - because it doesn't say they are. The verse says that they are "WITHOUT"! Without what? Why the GATES and the CITY of course! within the context there is no other possibility. And they can't enter into the city because they failed to DO His Commandments and thusly have NO RIGHT to "the tree of life".

Because of the above Scriptures I concluded that there are saved and unsaved in eternity (please see my preceding Post #232).

Your points are well taken and there isn't a whole lot of Scripture to prove "my point", and that is why I won't even debate the point, because I could be wrong.

Respectfully yours,

George Anderson

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by George

Has Abraham's "seed" (The "physical" descendants {Jews/Hebrews} and the "spiritual" descendent's {Gentiles - by "faith" Galatians 3:29}) from the time of Abraham (when the promise was made) up to our present time added up to the number of stars or the sand of the sea? Obviously not.

Maybe this indicates how the numbering is:

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Do you think that maybe the "as" in the numbering might mean the "innumerable quality" rather than a specific number?

Not that it makes much difference.

George, I hope for both our sakes that your view is wrong. Heaven won't be much of a Heavenly place if there are still wicked living on the earth at the time (and according to Revelation 21-22, Heaven will be on earth - ie. we will be living in the new earth, with the new Jerusalem just above, not in some separate dimension). Heaven is defined as where the presence of God dwells - and in Revelation 21-22, that place is on the new earth.

[George]

Originally Posted by Diligent

Maybe this indicates how the numbering is:

Genesis 13:16 And I will make thy seed as the dust of the earth: so that if a man can number the dust of the earth, then shall thy seed also be numbered.

Do you think that maybe the "as" in the numbering might mean the "innumerable quality" rather than a specific number?

Not that it makes much difference.

I missed that verse Brandon - I really haven't had time to think about it, however we can be sure of one thing - it's going to be more grand than we can imagine and our Lord is going to be there!

Back to Ruckman - does he believe in UFOs? I saw that he had some sermons on them and wondered if any of you Ruckman fans know his views on that? Just for the record, I clearly do not believe in UFOs. But I do know who the prince of the power of the air is according to the Bible. Aslo - NOT a Ruckman fan!!