[Diligent]

Originally Posted by aussiemama

I don't believe that Christians ought to watch or read these sorts of things, but unfortunately the only one my husband agrees with me on is Harry Potter, which makes me sad because it means my kids will be involved in witchcraft with their father's consent.

It's not a good idea to share marital disagreements like this in public.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Acts 19 shows us that those converts burned all their curious works.
I think we should follow their steps.

In Christ,

Hey pastor,

I agree.

Acts 19:18-20 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

I think this is a great verse to highlight the position we Christians must stand for. The occult is so seductive, even to a seasoned champion of the Book. So lets guard ourselves against this filth, and guard those who might be looking to us for an ensample.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by stephanos

Hey pastor,

I agree.

Acts 19:18-20 And many that believed came, and confessed, and shewed their deeds. Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver. So mightily grew the word of God and prevailed.

I think this is a great verse to highlight the position we Christians must stand for. The occult is so seductive, even to a seasoned champion of the Book. So lets guard ourselves against this filth, and guard those who might be looking to us for an ensample.

Much Love in Christ,
Stephen

I certainly agree with you that if you own books "...which [are being] used [for] curious arts" you should bring those "...books together, and [burn] them before all men."

Acts 19:19 Many of them also which used curious arts brought their books together, and burned them before all men: and they counted the price of them, and found it fifty thousand pieces of silver.

[Diligent]

I've never read a Tolkien book, but I sure wouldn't imply that someone who has read one is a "user of curious arts" for reading a fantasy novel.

Is practicing witchcraft permissible? Certainly not. Is reading fantasy fiction the same as practicing witchcraft? No.

Let us each be fully persuaded in our own minds and let us not be legalistic about such things.

I don't think reading a fictional fantasy book which includes witchcraft and sorcery is practising witchcraft. I simply believe that it opens the door for our enemy to have an unnecessary influence - whether we realize the affects or not is irrelevant. (Actually, the most OBVIOUS affect is TOLERANCE of witchcraft!!!)
It also allows others who are watching us to question this practice, and then take what WE allow another step further.
It also allows us an open door to allow other types of books/movies in.
In my view, it is the top of the "slippery slope."

I am not being legalistic about this at all. I believe that the Bible's condemnation of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, etc. should be sufficient for us to NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT in any form. In my view, it is NOT a liberty issue, since the Bible speaks directly to the matter. To say that those passages do not apply because these books are fictional is to dismiss the relevance of the Bible.

Just because it is fiction does not negate its affects or its connections to the occult. Wiccans don't believe in practicing "black magic", they use their "arts" for "good." So just because Gandolf is a "good" wizard, doesn't make him any less evil - at least according to the Bible. Where do the "good" sorcerers get their power from anyway? The Lord? The Holy Spirit? Do they acknowledge the Holy Scriptures? If the source of their power is not the Lord, then there is only one other source left - the devil. Why play with his minions?



In Christ,

Originally Posted by Here Am I

If a book/movie glorifies Satan, then I would say not to read it/watch it.

Personally, I rarely watch movies, but when I do, I am choosy about what I put before my eyes. I avoid movies that have a lot of profane language, or sex scenes.

And if a book/movie (or even music!) gets between me and my Lord, then I put it away from me. For that reason, I no longer listen to rock and roll.

I recently re-read The Lord of the Rings, and enjoyed it. It did not pull me away from my Bible, or lessen my worship of the Lord, so I would read it again, perhaps. Other books I used to love to read I have thrown away, because of the content: an anti-Christian bias.

So wizardry is not anti-Christian???

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

Necromancy deals with a suppossed ability to communicate with the dead. In answer to my own question about STar Wars and "the Force" it is indeed a form of witchcraft. Actually the entire Jedi order is nothing more than a different term for the Far Eastern mystical religions. But the ability to levitate, move things, etc are all "magical" powers, so I think it does fall into this broad category, even though it isn't "traditional" magic (ie witches, sorcerers, potions, spells, etc.) Actually, I think it is a little bit closer to reality than the other fictional works.

In Christ,

I brought this point out because one of the key elements of "The Force" and the "Jedi Order" is the ability to communicate with the dead Jedi. If this isn't Necromancy, I don't know what is.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Steve Schwenke

I don't think reading a fictional fantasy book which includes witchcraft and sorcery is practising witchcraft. I simply believe that it opens the door for our enemy to have an unnecessary influence - whether we realize the affects or not is irrelevant. (Actually, the most OBVIOUS affect is TOLERANCE of witchcraft!!!)
It also allows others who are watching us to question this practice, and then take what WE allow another step further.
It also allows us an open door to allow other types of books/movies in.
In my view, it is the top of the "slippery slope."

I am not being legalistic about this at all. I believe that the Bible's condemnation of sorcery, witchcraft, necromancy, etc. should be sufficient for us to NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH IT in any form. In my view, it is NOT a liberty issue, since the Bible speaks directly to the matter. To say that those passages do not apply because these books are fictional is to dismiss the relevance of the Bible.

Just because it is fiction does not negate its affects or its connections to the occult. Wiccans don't believe in practicing "black magic", they use their "arts" for "good." So just because Gandolf is a "good" wizard, doesn't make him any less evil - at least according to the Bible. Where do the "good" sorcerers get their power from anyway? The Lord? The Holy Spirit? Do they acknowledge the Holy Scriptures? If the source of their power is not the Lord, then there is only one other source left - the devil. Why play with his minions?



In Christ,

Good post. I think your comment about "TOLERANCE of witchcraft" being the obvious affect from reading and watching this material, and it being a bad example to others, are excellent points!

Brother, you are hitting real close to home in this thread, and we all need to hear it and consider the consequences of allowing such trash to enter our minds and those of our impressionable children.

[Luke]

I just want to say something about C.S. Lewis

The man was wrong on a lot of things. Yes.

But some are saying "I doubt his salvation". Why? Because you never read his conversion testimony. I haven't read yours, but I don't doubt that you are all saved. I haven't read Spurgeons, but I don't doubt that he was saved. I wonder how many great men of God in times past never had a written testimony of salvation...

What are the requirements for salvation? Do you have to have your doctrine right? Do you have to understand everything in the Bible? Or do you simply have to understand and believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ upon the cross. Because as far as I was aware, that was it - believing in Jesus Christ's free grace to all who receive by believing.

Judging a man as unsaved because he has bad doctrine is ridiculous. It is quite clear that C.S. Lewis understood the atonement, and if he believed it, he is in heaven right now regardless of whether he ever wrote his testimony down.

Those accusing a dead man of things they cannot possibly know need to get off their high horse. You are not any more saved because your doctrine is right or you read the right Bible. You are saved the same way as everyone else.

[/rant]

God bless
Luke

EDIT: I wasn't writing this in his defense. I've never read a C.S. Lewis book, and I don't intend to. The premise of the screwtape letters does not appeal to me, and I prefer non-fiction.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Luke

I just want to say something about C.S. Lewis

The man was wrong on a lot of things. Yes.

But some are saying "I doubt his salvation". Why? Because you never read his conversion testimony. I haven't read yours, but I don't doubt that you are all saved. I haven't read Spurgeons, but I don't doubt that he was saved. I wonder how many great men of God in times past never had a written testimony of salvation...

What are the requirements for salvation? Do you have to have your doctrine right? Do you have to understand everything in the Bible? Or do you simply have to understand and believe in the atonement of Jesus Christ upon the cross. Because as far as I was aware, that was it - believing in Jesus Christ's free grace to all who receive by believing.

Judging a man as unsaved because he has bad doctrine is ridiculous. It is quite clear that C.S. Lewis understood the atonement, and if he believed it, he is in heaven right now regardless of whether he ever wrote his testimony down.

Those accusing a dead man of things they cannot possibly know need to get off their high horse. You are not any more saved because your doctrine is right or you read the right Bible. You are saved the same way as everyone else.

[/rant]

God bless
Luke

EDIT: I wasn't writing this in his defense. I've never read a C.S. Lewis book, and I don't intend to. The premise of the screwtape letters does not appeal to me, and I prefer non-fiction.

Yeah I was thinking this too. I don't doubt CS Lewis' conversion. I don't keep the Lamb's Book of Life, so it's not my job to say his name is or isn't there. But I can warn people about what he might have written, but that's where I draw the line.

Peace and Love,
Stephen