[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Bro. Parrish

Oh boy, don't get me started on the Giants, haha...

Brother Kiwi and I have had a great time talking about the Antediluvian age, I have 4 pages of links and references on the subject, for anyone wanting to explore, this is a fascinating topic for me, I have posted about discoveries in the Ohio River Valley and bones they found in Java, articles from the TIMES archives, circa 1946:

"The oldest were the biggest. From the lowest level came massive teeth and jaw bones which must have belonged to monstrous manlike creatures eight to nine feet tall and weighing 600 to 700 pounds. They were four times as big as modern man..."

"cut stone pieces on mountains in Bolivia that weigh over 900 TONS, located at an elevation of over 12,000 feet. There is a giant wharf in Puma Punka with one cut stone at 440 TONS."

"The ruins of Baalbek in Lebanon contains the amazing 1000 TON Stone of the South, which weighs approximately as much as three Boeing 747 aircraft, along with the Trilithon---giant granite stones beautifully fitted together at a height of 20 feet above present ground level. These cut stones are fitted so tightly that you cannot fit a knife or even a needle between them, and it would be a serious challenge for even today's engineers to move something like that even a short distance..."

Lots of interesting stuff, feel free to explore...
here is the link, God bless...
http://baptist1611.phpbb3now.com/vie....php?f=1&t=463

Sweet! Thanks for this brother. I to find this subject facinating.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[MC1171611]

(Notice: I firmly believe in a Gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 where Lucifer fell, the first earth was destroyed, and Satan gained dominion over the "air" or, as I believe, space and the atmosphere of the newly created {Gen. 1:3 -> } earth. This is not an attempt to fit evolution into the Bible: a study of Scripture shows that there is easily room for a Gap here without compromising any other Doctrine whatsoever. That being said, it's a minor doctrine and not worthy of division or argument other than simple discussion.)

I believe there are two kinds of former angels, one of which gave rise to the "Nephilim." One group rebelled against God (see above) in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, and fell with Lucifer to the now-destroyed earth (Satan was "in Eden, the Garden of God," as well as a covering Cherub) and became "demons" or in Biblical terms, "devils" (Lk. 8:2, 27; 1 Cor. 10:20; James 2:19, etc.). These beings are spiritual, and many times are the cause of ethereal sightings of ghosts and spirits: these beings love to be worshiped as gods. They are doubtlessly behind the many polytheistic religions of the world, more powerful beings in Satan's kingdom being the more powerful and influential deities in some societies (as per Frank Peretti's "This Present Darkness," perhaps).

On the other hand are the "angels that left their first estate" or "habitation" (Jude 6; 2 Pet. 2:4). These angels (I believe) are those that in Genesis 6 left their place in Heaven (good angels) because of the beauty of human women. They, being supernatural beings, took on human form, leaving their first estate as "Sons of God," and their offspring was unnatural and inhuman. These angels were confined to Hell (everlasting chains of darkness) pending their judgment (1 Cor. 6:3). There are some that believe that the "whole earth" being filled with "violence" was a result of bestiality by these former Sons of God; they are the "demons" that are believed to inhabit Hell.

The Nephilim, as they are called, would have descended from these former Sons of God (or angels). However, this begs the question: these Sons of God came down once and cohabitated with humanity; what's to stop them from doing it again? Somehow the line of giants and mutants (twelve fingers/toes) showed back up later: where did they come from if all the antediluvian "Nephilim" had been destroyed in the Flood?

I'd make sure to tell your daughters to watch out for handsome, 33 year-old guys, just in case they do make another appearance!

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

(Notice: I firmly believe in a Gap of time between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2 where Lucifer fell, the first earth was destroyed, and Satan gained dominion over the "air" or, as I believe, space and the atmosphere of the newly created {Gen. 1:3 -> } earth. This is not an attempt to fit evolution into the Bible: a study of Scripture shows that there is easily room for a Gap here without compromising any other Doctrine whatsoever. That being said, it's a minor doctrine and not worthy of division or argument other than simple discussion.)

I believe there are two kinds of former angels, one of which gave rise to the "Nephilim." One group rebelled against God (see above) in between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, and fell with Lucifer to the now-destroyed earth (Satan was "in Eden, the Garden of God," as well as a covering Cherub) and became "demons" or in Biblical terms, "devils" (Lk. 8:2, 27; 1 Cor. 10:20; James 2:19, etc.). These beings are spiritual, and many times are the cause of ethereal sightings of ghosts and spirits: these beings love to be worshiped as gods. They are doubtlessly behind the many polytheistic religions of the world, more powerful beings in Satan's kingdom being the more powerful and influential deities in some societies (as per Frank Peretti's "This Present Darkness," perhaps).

On the other hand are the "angels that left their first estate" or "habitation" (Jude 6; 2 Pet. 2:4). These angels (I believe) are those that in Genesis 6 left their place in Heaven (good angels) because of the beauty of human women. They, being supernatural beings, took on human form, leaving their first estate as "Sons of God," and their offspring was unnatural and inhuman. These angels were confined to Hell (everlasting chains of darkness) pending their judgment (1 Cor. 6:3). There are some that believe that the "whole earth" being filled with "violence" was a result of bestiality by these former Sons of God; they are the "demons" that are believed to inhabit Hell.

The Nephilim, as they are called, would have descended from these former Sons of God (or angels). However, this begs the question: these Sons of God came down once and cohabitated with humanity; what's to stop them from doing it again? Somehow the line of giants and mutants (twelve fingers/toes) showed back up later: where did they come from if all the antediluvian "Nephilim" had been destroyed in the Flood?

I'd make sure to tell your daughters to watch out for handsome, 33 year-old guys, just in case they do make another appearance!

Personally I feel that there isn't enough Scripture to support the Gap theory. I think it's an interesting theory, and certainly a posibility, but in my eyes a 'theory'.

That being said, I find you comments interesting. Have you ever read the book of Enoch? I read the first part of it and was quit overwhelmed with the things in it I read. Anywho, despite the fact that I don't personally believe it is inspired (since I believe if it was inspired, God would have preserved it for inclusion in the KJB, which He didn't) I do find it interesting that the majority of the first part deals with these fallen angels that brought forth the nephilim.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[MC1171611]

Since this topic isn't about the Gap, I'll refrain from going into details; let it suffice to say that there is evidence enough for a Bible Believer.

Another extra-Biblical writing to consider is the Book of Jasher. Interestingly enough, Jasher is mentioned twice in the Bible: once in Joshua 10:13 and again in 2 Samuel 1:18. While it's not Scripture, and there are discrepancies and strange things in it, it does speak of angels coming down and taking women to wife; it also talks of bestiality and the results of that. Again, it's not Scripture, but when it agrees with Scripture at least a good bit of the time, it's not unwise to at least give it a look-see.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

Since this topic isn't about the Gap, I'll refrain from going into details; let it suffice to say that there is evidence enough for a Bible Believer.

Another extra-Biblical writing to consider is the Book of Jasher. Interestingly enough, Jasher is mentioned twice in the Bible: once in Joshua 10:13 and again in 2 Samuel 1:18. While it's not Scripture, and there are discrepancies and strange things in it, it does speak of angels coming down and taking women to wife; it also talks of bestiality and the results of that. Again, it's not Scripture, but when it agrees with Scripture at least a good bit of the time, it's not unwise to at least give it a look-see.

I am a Bible Believer! You need to be careful next time you decide to make a comment like this. I really want to remain peacable with you, but if you insinuate something like this one more time I will not hold back my peace.

I to have looked into Jasher, and Enoch. I don't think they were inspired, but I think they are interesting. I don't know what else to say about these books.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[KJBPrincess]

Originally Posted by stephanos

I am a Bible Believer! You need to be careful next time you decide to make a comment like this. I really want to remain peacable with you, but if you insinuate something like this one more time I will not hold back my peace.

I to have looked into Jasher, and Enoch. I don't think they were inspired, but I think they are interesting. I don't know what else to say about these books.

Peace and Love,
Stephen

He wasn't insinuating that you aren't a Bible Believer. I don't even know how you got that out of his post.

[stephanos]

I might be a bit touchy today, forgive me if I am. But it sure sounded like he was saying that only a Bible Believer would believe 'the evidence' and therefore would logically conclude that the gap 'theory' is indeed true. I think I need a break. *goes and throws some avocado slices on a toasted bagel*

Peace and Love,
Stephen

[MC1171611]

Originally Posted by stephanos

I might be a bit touchy today, forgive me if I am. But it sure sounded like he was saying that only a Bible Believer would believe 'the evidence' and therefore would logically conclude that the gap 'theory' is indeed true. I think I need a break. *goes and throws some avocado slices on a toasted bagel*

Peace and Love,
Stephen

I'm sorry if that's how it sounded, brother; I meant that an in-depth study should provide enough evidence. I apologize for coming across so badly like that.

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by MC1171611

I'm sorry if that's how it sounded, brother; I meant that an in-depth study should provide enough evidence. I apologize for coming across so badly like that.

Thank you for clearing that up. It did kinda come off that way.

The Gap thing is just one of those issues that is hard to get solid for me, either way. After 15 years of being a KJV man, I am now to the point where I think it's "very likely" but still not something I am certain on. It's certainly not a critical matter to resolve in the here and now.

It's interesting that Stauffer's book (One Book Rightly Divided) doesn't even mention the Gap issue, even though Stauffer believes it. It causes much division and isn't necessary to "settle" even in a broad treatment of dispensationalism.

I never really bothered much with the Gap theory, although it's interesting to a point. I have read some of Ken Ham's material on it, (AIG has page after page of articles on this)
and I think he brings up some good points for consideration.

Anyway, here are some links for reference, in case anyone wants to ponder other views:

http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../gaptheory.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../beginning.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/arti...ction-theories
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea.../gaptheory.asp
http://www.answersingenesis.org/crea...gap_theory.asp