[Luke]

A Study on the First Adam and Last Adam might yield some results.

Jesus Christ is described as the Last Adam, but his overall rulership and kingdom will be the fulfillment of what the first Adam's was meant to be. He will have dominion over all creation.

Will it be exactly the same? I don't know.. But there will be a moon, even if it does not light the earth by night. Revelation 21 says the earth has no need of the sun or moon, but it doesn't say there is no sun or moon (it says there is no sea, which I take to mean the great deep - nothing to seperate the third heaven from the first and second - God will dwell with man).

One of the other things Ruckman said on the DVD I watched was about the First Adam and Last Adam. Interesting observation..

If the first adam was told to be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth, and was expected to do so and remain sinless, how many generations could the earth alone have sustained them? If each generation has two children, we start with two, then four, then eight.. it grows exponentially.

And what was the purpose of creating an entire universe if no one was going to inhabit it? It's speculation, and he only mentioned it in passing (it was not the crux of the message), but it was interesting still.

[Brother Tim]

I am guessing that you agree that much of this is pure speculation without any direct or indirect Biblical back-up.

The purpose of the sun and moon were to give light on the earth and to be timing devices (day and night, seasons, years, etc). None of these are needed in the new heaven and new earth. I do not think that it is stretching Scripture to say that they will not exist.

There are many objects in God's creation that have no explainable purpose. It is a leap to say that God created the universe in anticipation of populating multiple "earths". Why then destroy them all, only to recreate them? They have not been polluted with sinful mankind.

The sum of it is this: We are not told in the Scriptures enough clear information to do anything more than use some imaginative guessing. As long as it is understood as that (sort of like discussing how many angels can fit on the head of a pin), and nobody starts acting like they have some additional revelation or illumination, then we can all look back in that eternal day and laugh at how blind we all were.

[Luke]

What about Isaiah 66 (last 3 verses).

It seems to me that that is in eternity... after the new heaven and new earth, and there is a moon there, and people observe sabbath days.

(Yes, I do agree that it is speculation)

[Brother Tim]

Well I didn't say that I had ALL the answers!

Just a thought...

Isaiah 66:22 For as the new heavens and the new earth, which I will make, shall remain before me, saith the LORD, so shall your seed and your name remain.

Is it possible that the new heavens and the new earth have not yet been made when verses 23-24 take place? I emphasized two spots. The "as" is a comparison that the seed and name will be eternal like the new heavens and new earth. The "will make" does not give us a point in time for the "making". The point of the verse is the eternality of the seed and name.

[chette777]

Tim the New Heaven and Earth in Revelation I do believe is the promised making of Isa 66. what we need to understand is that the Sun and Moon are not needed for light in the New Jerusalem.

Luke, I also feel that the current time system of 24/7 will be changed into a eternal time set and so new moons and Sabbaths may not be based on the 24/7 TQ anymore.

I have been studying water and our planet. and some very interesting facts that science doesn't want us to know. Fact there is a narrow path in which the earth travels and is placed. it is called a water band. in the past the earth was located slightly closer to Mars (not enough to freeze us) this position would allow and is believed to allow for more water in the atmosphere without blocking the suns rays and the rain cycle. the weather patterns were much different. with larger areas of the earth being covered in ice and snow.

for science a strange positional change took place of the earth within this band and the earth warmed more and the amounts and types of water in the atmosphere changed. we know it as Noah's flood.

the earth has been on a slow moving course in this water band. as it moves closer to the sun the earth gets warmer. But as long as the earth remains within the water band it is safe if it goes to far out the water is freeze dried and we would be like Mars. if it gets to close the water would evaporate and we would be like Venus.

[Greektim]

Is the general consensus here that there is no longer time or measurements of time in the New Jerusalem?

[Brother Tim]

Chette, if science* does not want us to know this about water and earth's orbit, how did you come about it?

* "Science" is inanimate. It cannot give or prevent knowledge. There are certainly scientists who hide facts when those facts go against their philosophy, but not all. There are men and women who are faithful believers and also professional scientists. Do not lump all "science" together.

[chette777]

Scientist don't want you to know the FACTS that there is a wide band in which the earth travels and when it was at one end or side of this band more water could be stored in the Atmosphere and and where it is currently it cannot. Scientist proved there was a flood and it was universal and it changed the atmosphere and climate. but yet wont share that info because it agrees with the Bible.

I found it by doing research. Just that no one of the higher echelons of Scholastic Society wants this info reported as education but it is out there you can start by going to http://jchemed.chem.wisc.edu/ and https://carnot.physics.buffalo.edu it was here I found one reference to the water band and from there I have had to so more searching. it is not that you can't find it it just that they don't want it published openly. you may have to fiddle around a bit and do some searching I don't have the exact pages as I had many hours into it to find information.

Secondly, 24/7 Time was started in Gen 1:3-5 after the creation of the heaven and earth but before the creation of man. There is a measurement of time in the New Jerusalem but it is on an Eternal time set not 24/7. God can do with time what he wants as he is the one who established it. but Rev is clear the sun and moon are no longer needed for light. no darkness or night will in fact make a day 24hours long and not the current 12 that has been set up sine Gen 1:3 for the New Jerusalem that is. However we still cant get the full understanding of it as we are not at that time yet. God may still use 24/7in some way but it will be limited after the new heaven and earth are established.

The thing to remember about time is this. We only understand 24/7 365 day years. but we do not understand "from everlasting to everlasting" this term is used to describe God's existence it is a time measurement but we don't fully understand it. This time Measurement is known to God, Angels, Cherubim and Seraphim but is not understood by men, we call it eternity. "From everlasting" = eternity past; present time; and "to Everlasting" = eternity future it encompasses all of our known 24/7 365 day calculations to date. we can only measure time according to our 24/7 and we can only go back so far and that would be to the time God established the 24/7 TQ in Gen1:3-5 on and during the first 24 hour day.

Three things we see that are not mentioned in Gen1 When was water made? when was the deep established and When was the planet earth created?

All three are said and presumed to exist before the 24/7 establishement in verse 3-5. never once after verse 2 are we told the earth was created (only dry land called earth which is not the same as the planet), we are never told how water came about or the deep. so it would naturaly follow that if Verses 3-31 are a recap of verse one then indeed those three things would be mentioned but they are not. So the work of God for six days did not start at verse one but at verse three when 24 hour day was first established and the Earth, Water and the deep are already existing.

sorry to have taken you guys so far off topic.

[chette777]

an interesting side note of my observation of what Scientist say about the Water band is this. Though I worded it to be limited to our atmosphere, scientist show that the band itself which is the area in which the earth travels and warbles around the sun may have in fact been full of water at one time.

That could explain where all the water came from at Noah's flood. not that is existed beyond the firmament or on other planets but that the earth at one time seemed to flow in a type of river of water of some type (the water band) around the sun.