[Diligent]

Originally Posted by Jacomus

Diligent, do you know of a site which answers the often propounded 'Biblical contradictions' from a perspective of absolute Biblical inerrancy?

I do not know what to suggest as a one-stop-shop for apologetics consistent with Biblical infallibility -- there are many sites, including this one, that address various problem texts.

The book "Errors in the King James Bible" by Bro. Ruckman is probably the most exhaustive book I've read tackling problem texts. And for people afraid of catching Ruckmanitis, there's "Things Hard to be Understood" by Bro. Cloud, but it's not as comprehensive.

As for concerns about getting into a "textual debate" -- I just don't see how any Islamist is going to be genuinely interested in textual issues anyway. You should quote relevant verses, and if they attack the word, there is just nothing you can do about it.

Islamism is "getting into textual debates." You must go to YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20mF9pCVRLE

[Diligent]

Originally Posted by freesundayschoollessons

Islamism is "getting into textual debates." You must go to YouTube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20mF9pCVRLE

Did you miss the word "genuinely" in my post? Unless you think this guy is genuinely interested in the Bible text issue -- rather than using textual criticism as a means to "disprove" the Bible -- then your response has nothing to do with what I said.

[George]

Originally Posted by Jacomus

freesundayschoollessons,
Yeah, I was, and despite my relative uncertainty currently am to an extent still, a supporter of textual criticism, particularly due to Dr. James White. But I've not been totally convinced by their explanations as to how these alterations would have snuck in there.

Diligent, do you know of a site which answers the often propounded 'Biblical contradictions' from a perspective of absolute Biblical inerrancy?

Will Kinney's site: http://www.geocities.com/brandplucked/
Is as good as any and if he doesn't supply an answer to some of your questions he will direct you to other King james Bible believing sites.

Diligent's web page: http://av1611.com/kjbp/ is another excellent source for the kind of information you are looking for.

I also list several links on my web page: http://www.thywordistruthkjv.com/ if you would care to check them out.

There is a whole lot of "information' out there (much of it repetitive or inconsequential) - enough to utterly confound the inquirer if they are not "diligent" and "prayerful" in their research.

Did you miss the word "genuinely" in my post? Unless you think this guy is genuinely interested in the Bible text issue -- rather than using textual criticism as a means to "disprove" the Bible -- then your response has nothing to do with what I said.

I am not following you here. Why does it matter if they are genuinely interested or not? The fact is, they are debating textual issues. You can take the approach and get "blind sided." I do know, in my personal witness with Muslims, that you need to be prepared at this level. These guys know the Bible and the Koran.

Oh well...I will not let this post hijack the discussion on this thread. That is all from me.

Thanks for the answers again.

George, I've actually been trying to get hold of Maynard's book, and hopefully will have it ordered in the coming days.

As for the links, they do well to identify the inconsistencies in the Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus etc, but it would be nice with some better sourced information on the similarities between the TR and the Old Latin, Armenian etc.

Diligent, thanks for the tips, I'm particularly interested in Cloud's book and will be sure to try to get hold of a copy in the near future. However, I am extremely suspicious of Ruckman and his doctrines.

And just as freesundayschoollessons says, textual reliability is extremely important when witnessing to Muslims. One of my Muslim friends, for instance, rejects the Bible with contradictions being his sole argument.

[George]

Originally Posted by Jacomus

Thanks for the answers again.

George, I've actually been trying to get hold of Maynard's book, and hopefully will have it ordered in the coming days.

As for the links, they do well to identify the inconsistencies in the Vaticanus, Sinaiticus, Alexandrinus etc, but it would be nice with some better sourced information on the similarities between the TR and the Old Latin, Armenian etc.

Diligent, thanks for the tips, I'm particularly interested in Cloud's book and will be sure to try to get hold of a copy in the near future. However, I am extremely suspicious of Ruckman and his doctrines.

And just as freesundayschoollessons says, textual reliability is extremely important when witnessing to Muslims. One of my Muslim friends, for instance, rejects the Bible with contradictions being his sole argument.

If you can't find a copy of Maynard's book, I have an extra copy that I could give you - I'll never read it again, and I certainly don't have any use for two.

I have read at least 60 books (from different "camps") and probably as many pamphlets, booklets, etc. on this issue and, my memory isn't what it used to be , I do not recall any one particular Author that covers your interests in depth (Scrivener, Miller, Hoskier, might be of some "help").

As far as my limited knowledge on this subject goes: your best bet would be all of Burgon's works and Ruckman's (this is actually the first time I am recommending brother Ruckman's material - other than recommending his auto-biographies for anyone interested in his life).

You might also inquire from brother Steven Avery here on the Forum. He seems to be as well informed on this subject as anyone, and probably better than any of us.

Thanks for the offer George, it might well come in handy, though the distance might be a hindrance... It seems surprisingly difficult to get hold of Maynard's book here in Sweden.

Is there any particular book by Burgon you'd recommend? I will likely eventually read some of Ruckman's works, but I feel better investigating this one step at a time.

Thanks for your help.

[George]

Originally Posted by Jacomus

Thanks for the offer George, it might well come in handy, though the distance might be a hindrance... It seems surprisingly difficult to get hold of Maynard's book here in Sweden.

Is there any particular book by Burgon you'd recommend? I will likely eventually read some of Ruckman's works, but I feel better investigating this one step at a time.

Thanks for your help.

I'm dead serious with the offer brother. We have sent books to India, the Philippines, and are getting ready to send a bunch to South Africa.

We are a very small assembly - but we try to help the brethren who have difficulty obtaining Bibles (King James Only - Of course! ) and study materials when we can.

My wife checked on the postage - approximately $12.00 (American) and approximately 10 days. Should you decide to take up our offer we'll just send it to you and whenever you can afford it - give the money to your favorite missionary.

No one - living or dead has ever matched Dean John Burgon in his field of endeavor. If you want to get a real thorough handle on some of these issues he's your man.

I highly recommend you obtaining his works in this order:

#1. "The Revision Revised" {by Burgon - I read it 3 times & still refer to it.}
#2. "The Traditional Text" {by Burgon & Miller - I read it 3 times & still refer to it.}
#3. "Causes of Corruption" by Burgon & Miller - I read it 3 times & still refer to it.}
#4. "The Last 12 Verses of Mark" {by Burgon, 400+ pages on the manuscript evidence for just those 12 verses! - I read it 2 times.}
#5, "Dean Burgon's Revision Warnings" {by Waite - I'm not enamored of brother Waite, but there may be some useful material here - never read it.}
#6. "Inspiration and Interpretation" {by Burgon - "heavy" reading - I read most of it, but I really had to "wade" through the "swamp".}

If you want to get an idea of the "scholarship" of John Burgon how's this for "prodigious"?

From The Dean Burgon Society:

"Quotations of the Church Fathers. As a result of his research, Burgon compiled an index of sixteen folio volumes of more than 86,000 quotations of or allusions to Scripture which were used by the Church Fathers. These indexes were about 12" by 18" by 3" in size. They are presently in London's British Museum. They have been catalogued by Dean Burgon and his associates. Each quotation or allusion is color-coded to show the exact page and version of the Church Fathers from which they were derived. These are very valuable indexes, but as yet are unpublished."

I hope this has been of some help.

Wow, I'm completely up for your offer, George. I'll gladly donate the money to my favourite missionary.

John Burgon seems impressive, to say the least. I'll start ordering his books for some good summer reading, and thankfully they all seem to be readily available here.