Originally Posted by Forrest

To me, the relevant question is: "Can a true born-again "Catholic" continue to follow the false teaching of Catholicism?"

That's a good point Forrest, I think every Catholic I ever knew who got saved eventually came out of it completely and had nothing good to say about it afterwards.

One of my best friends many years ago was actually planning on becoming a priest. He started going to our church to hang out with the single adults ministry and he had a lot of questions. We use to play tennis together every week and I could tell he was in a lot of spiritual turmoil over this. I was able to relate because I had a fair amount of Catholic influence in my life as a youngster.

Well that old KJV got him straightened out and eventually he became a warrior for God and got married. I can recall several stories like this with former Catholics I have had the pleasure of knowing over the years. I think the more they learn about God's Word, the less they will feel comfortable in Catholic doctrine.

[Winman]

Years ago my best friend and co-worker was a devout Roman Catholic. We spoke about the Bible everyday. When I first knew him it was clear he thought he had to obey the teachings of the Roman Catholic church to be saved. I believe at that time he was lost, although only the Lord can say who is truly lost or saved. But I believe he was lost because according to his own words he had to obey the church to be saved. I showed him many scriptures over the years and he came to agree that we were saved by trusting in Jesus Christ 100% for our salvation without the works of the law. So, I believe he was saved later according to the own words coming out of his mouth. He even admitted that he believed the teaching of the RC was wrong. I suggested he come out of the RC church, but he felt he could help his church and teach the true gospel there. I moved away, but he probably still belongs to the RC church.

And just because someone is Baptist does not mean they are saved. Being saved has nothing to do with church membership. The Bible clearly teaches that we must believe on Jesus to be saved.

But what does believe mean? Any Roman Catholic will tell you that Jesus is the Son of God, that He died on the cross for our sins, and that He rose from the dead. Does that mean they are saved?

I don't think so. You have to go one step further than just affirming or believeing that Jesus died for us and rose from the dead. You have to trust Jesus 100% to get you to heaven. You must abandon or repent from the belief that good works, or that ordinances like baptism will get you to heaven.

I liken it to jumping out of a plane with a parachute. When you jump out of the plane, you are depending or believeing 100% for that parachute to get you to the ground safely. If that parachute fails, then you are a goner. And we do not help the parachute either, we do not flap our arms and try to fly. No, we depend or rely 100% on the parachute.

So, this is what I believe the biblical term to believe on Christ means. When I was a boy I prayed and asked Jesus Christ to forgive all my sins and come into my heart. And that is ALL my hope for heaven. I am depending completely on Jesus, if Jesus doesn't get me to heaven I am doomed. There is nothing good about me, and no works I can do to get to heaven. And I do not need Jesus plus good works, it is Jesus alone.

And you know, I am glad I can depend on Jesus to get me to heaven. I know Jesus can never fail. If I had to depend on myself I KNOW I would fail.

Many believe the 17th chapter of Revelations is the Roman Catholic church, and I think this is probably so myself. If so, there are absolutely saved people in the church as God calls them out in Rev 18:4

Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye receive not of her plagues.

You see here that God calls them "my people", so these people are saved, but in the wrong church.

[Kiwi Christian]

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

...I want a definitive answer, with Biblical evidence. I am a Baptist myself, but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned.

Please tell us why you don't think Roman Catholics are damned?

Have a read of the following insiders testimony of a former RC priest: http://www.biblebelievers.com/XRCCPRIEST.html

Excerpt:

"THE REASON WHY I SHARE

I share these truths with you now so that you can know God's way of salvation. Our basic fault as Catholics is that we believe that somehow we can of ourselves respond to the help God gives us to be right in His sight. This presupposition that many of us have carried for years is aptly defined in the Catechism of the Catholic Church (1994) #2021, "Grace is the help God gives us to respond to our vocation of becoming his adopted sons...."

With that mindset, we were unknowingly holding to a teaching that the Bible continually condemns. Such a definition of grace is man's careful fabrication, for the Bible consistently declares that the believer's right standing with God is "without works" (Romans 4:6), "without the deeds of the Law" (Romans 3:28), "not of works" (Ephesians 2:9), "It is the gift of God," (Ephesians 2:8). To attempt to make the believer's response part of his salvation and to look upon grace as "a help" is to flatly deny Biblical truth,

"...if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace..." (Romans 11:6). The simple Biblical message is that "the gift of righteousness" in Christ Jesus is a gift, resting on His all-sufficient sacrifice on the cross, "For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ" (Romans 5:17).

So it is as Christ Jesus Himself said, He died in place of the believer, the One for many (Mark 10:45), His life a ransom for many. As He declared, ...this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins" (Matthew 26:28). This is also what Peter proclaimed, "For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God..." (I Peter 3:18).

Paul's preaching is summarized at the end of II Corinthians 5:21, "For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.." (II Cor. 5:21).

This fact, dear reader, is presented clearly to you in the Bible. Acceptance of it is now commanded by God, "...Repent ye, and believe the gospel" (Mark 1:15).

The most difficult repentance for us dyed-in-the-wool Catholics is changing our mind from thoughts of "meriting," "earning," "being good enough," simply to accepting with empty hands the gift of righteousness in Christ Jesus. To refuse to accept what God commands is the same sin as that of the religious Jews of Paul's time, "For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God." (Romans 10:3)"

[Traditional Anglican]

Originally Posted by chette777

I agree with Kiwi you can't assume all Catholics are unsaved.

as far as their worship today. let us remember there are plenty of Born Again churches from Evangelical Charismatics to some Baptist who practice things not found in the Bible. our practice does not determine our salvation.

If a person has truly trusted Jesus as the sole means for their salvation they are saved. prayers to Mary for forgiveness would amount to nothing just as going to the confessional amounts very nothing.

there is a Charismatic group here, most have trusted Jesus for salvation but they practice barfing demons into bags and believe they can be possessed by devils. their salvation is secure but the practice in unbiblical and they would grieve the Holy Ghost so their personal spiritual growth would be slow to nill because of such practices

I think it was Luther who summed it up with the words: "There are saved people in the Roman Church....in SPITE of the Roman Church.

People are dying see the Pope...
http://www.kktv.com/news/headlines/41631902.html

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

Hi, I am new here, but, since most everyone here is a Protestant who disagrees with Catholicism, I want a definitive answer, with Biblical evidence. I am a Baptist myself, but I am not convinced that Roman Catholics are damned. If anyone here thinks that they are, then will you please tell me why? Because Chick and the like say that they are.

Many people may think Jack Chick is a "hardcase", they've never talked to the man as I have. They've never heard him speak also. Stand Chick up next to Paul or Peter and you'll find him surprisingly sedate. Yes, we're all sinners but as a Christian Jack Chick will have many, many rewards in heaven.

To issue a blanket condemnation might seem wrong, but the best place to answer your question is the Scriptures:

Ga 1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:
Ga 1:7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
Ga 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Ga 1:11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

The Catholic believes another gospel not preached by Paul.

2Co 11:4 For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him.

The Jesus Christ of Catholicism is not the Jesus Christ preached by Paul, or anybody for that matter.

John 2:3 And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine.
4 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come.

Joh 19:26 When Jesus therefore saw his mother, and the disciple standing by, whom he loved, he saith unto his mother, Woman, behold thy son!

Jer 44:17 But we will certainly do whatsoever thing goeth forth out of our own mouth, to burn incense unto the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, as we have done, we, and our fathers, our kings, and our princes, in the cities of Judah, and in the streets of Jerusalem: for then had we plenty of victuals, and were well, and saw no evil.
Jer 44:18 But since we left off to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her, we have wanted all things, and have been consumed by the sword and by the famine.
Jer 44:19 And when we burned incense to the queen of heaven, and poured out drink offerings unto her, did we make her cakes to worship her, and pour out drink offerings unto her, without our men?
Jer 44:25 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel, saying; Ye and your wives have both spoken with your mouths, and fulfilled with your hand, saying, We will surely perform our vows that we have vowed, to burn incense to the queen of heaven, and to pour out drink offerings unto her: ye will surely accomplish your vows, and surely perform your vows.

The Mary of the Bible is not the Mary of Catholicism. Jesus did not hesitate to rebuke His mother if he felt the need.

It's hard to look upon a group of fundamentalist Bible Christians and pick out the saved and lost ones, but in the matter of your question, generally, yes, they are damned by their complacency in not searching the Scriptures for themselves to see if their "church" is correct in what they teach.

Grace and peace

Tony

[Mind and Body]

What I meant was, did some here think that Catholics aren't getting to "The Real McCoy", as it were, they are not expressing belief in the Real Christ, only the angry, co-mediatrix, Second-to-Mary type of Jesus that Catholics believe in? because that, I thought, was what damned Catholics to Hell. I really started to have my doubts in Catholicism when my friend Benjamin's mother, a devout Catholic that never misses Mass, suggested in a short conversation that God might be Female. She said of the Bible, which clearly teaches otherwise, that "the opinions of the writers got mixed up in the writings." I really was so flabbergasted that I had then nothing to say to her, but I can tell you that I am almost sure that she is not Born-Again.

[Fredoheaven]

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

What I meant was, did some here think that Catholics aren't getting to "The Real McCoy", as it were, they are not expressing belief in the Real Christ, only the angry, co-mediatrix, Second-to-Mary type of Jesus that Catholics believe in? because that, I thought, was what damned Catholics to Hell. I really started to have my doubts in Catholicism when my friend Benjamin's mother, a devout Catholic that never misses Mass, suggested in a short conversation that God might be Female. She said of the Bible, which clearly teaches otherwise, that "the opinions of the writers got mixed up in the writings." I really was so flabbergasted that I had then nothing to say to her, but I can tell you that I am almost sure that she is not Born-Again.

What really a catholic or to anyone damned to eternal hell is that their rejection to the Biblical Christ as their personal Saviour. Even a man who may be knowledgeable in many things of the bible yet still be damned to hell. I guess it's not what they believe in that makes them damned to eternal hell.Again, It is their full rejection to the Christ of the Bible as their Saviour.God's provision to man's need (incluing Catholic) was met at the cross of calvary. And only those who received Him (John 1:12) will be saved.

Jude 25
www.fredsites.weebly.com

[Winman]

Mind and Body

Here is a good article from the Jesus-Is-Savior website that goes into some detail about what Catholics believe they must believe and do to go to Heaven.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False..._salvation.htm

Originally Posted by Mind and Body

What I meant was, did some here think that Catholics aren't getting to "The Real McCoy", as it were, they are not expressing belief in the Real Christ, only the angry, co-mediatrix, Second-to-Mary type of Jesus that Catholics believe in?

Well M&B, I think your concern is valid.
If a cult or any religious system creates enough confusion for its followers, it will certainly lead to a false sense of salvation by works and a false understanding of Christ, which is very dangerous! That's why I wrote back in post no 8, "Catholic DOCTRINE does not lead one to salvation by grace."

You can see an example of this false sense of salvaton in Matthew chapter 7---I call this the most frightening passage in the Bible---because these poor people actually THINK they are saved!

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. -- Matt 7:22-23