You tell me - the passage quite clearly states God will draw all men unto Him through Christ's death. If you reject that, you are rejecting God's Word itself. The only thing debatable here is HOW He is drawing people to Himself.

What you are advocating is that the drawing power of the cross bears no fruit unless mans decides..

Thats a abomination..The drawing of men to christ is the actual conversion of them to christ..like saul who became paul..The drawing is effectual, but you deny this jerry..

I say all men who are drawn to christ are converted to christ, we are his fruit of his death..coming, being drawed , believing are all the same..

Originally Posted by beloved57

Jn 6:

44No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

I agree with God, no man can come to Jesus unless the Father draws him.

John 12:32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.

God draws all men to Himself, some receive the wonderful gift of salvation and many reject this wonderful gift.

Originally Posted by beloved57

I say all men who are drawn to christ are converted to christ, we are his fruit of his death..coming, being drawed , believing are all the same..

The verse I quoted said God was going to draw ALL men to Himself - so it is not my theology that contradicts the Bible. Blasphemy is speaking against God or claiming to be God when you are not, not having wrong theology.

The verse I quoted said God was going to draw ALL men to Himself

You dont understand the verse #1 and then you still have not answered my question..why does he draw men to him if they have freewill ?

The verse still conradicts freewill..if he draws men to him..

Beloved57,

A logical question is how does a person know he is being drawn according to your theology? Another logical question would be if, because we disagree with you, do you believe we aren't truly drawn, and, therefore, not really saved?

Originally Posted by beloved57

why does he draw men to him if they have freewill ?

The verse still conradicts freewill..if he draws men to him..

Having the freewill to make a choice doesn't mean God didn't do the work to enlighten us to make that choice. The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and unrighteousness and need for the Saviour - but man is still given the freewill to choose to accept or reject the Lord Jesus Christ and His salvation - which I have shown in various passages.

If drawing in itself meant they would be saved (according to your theology), then everyone would be saved - because Jesus said if He was crucified He would draw all men unto Himself. I believe it means that He would give everyone an opportunity to hear the Gospel and have the choice to be saved.

Having the freewill to make a choice doesn't mean God didn't do the work to enlighten us to make that choice.

But a man does not have a freewill to come to jesus to make any choice thats ludacris..

God has to choose thats scriptural..

ps 65:

4Blessed is the man whom thou choosest, and causest to approach unto thee, that he may dwell in thy courts: we shall be satisfied with the goodness of thy house, even of thy holy temple.

Duh you got it backwards good buddy..lol..

The choice is made when God chooses one to come..

Originally Posted by Revangelist

Beloved57,

A logical question is how does a person know he is being drawn according to your theology? Another logical question would be if, because we disagree with you, do you believe we aren't truly drawn, and, therefore, not really saved?

The drawing is when one is born from above..

No sir, I dont believe you are a believer in the true christ..

The Bible teaches the Holy Spirit convicts us of our sin and unrighteousness and need for the Saviour

Thats because one is born again when the spirit does that..

If drawing in itself meant they would be saved (according to your theology), then everyone would be saved

All that have been drawn are saved..all men drawn to me does not mean every individual but all from different classes and races..


The scripture says all that are drawn are eternally secure..

jn 6:

37All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

Thats because coming means they have been saved, thats why they come..