[Luke]

Well, we do have to repent of our sins, but repentance is not forsaking. It's a change of mind. So when I got saved (after reading a chick tract) I saw that God hated my sin. I didn't want to do it anymore. And I have struggled, but in my mind, I have always hated sin after that day.

So yeah, while I love Jesus-is-savior.com, because of his stand on eternal security and the freeness of grace, I have seen a trend where he is denying the neccesity of repentance, but on the other hand he has many articles about proper biblical repentance by John R Rice and H.A. Ironside (and ironside even says repent of your sins in "Except Ye Repent" after defining repentance as a change of mind about sin).

The word repent is not a dirty word.

I haven't really found anything on Jesus-is-savior.com that I would disagree with majorly. There is much conspiracy stuff there, but I ignore that part.. his sections on false teachers, false doctrines, King James Bible are great (you should really dig around that menu at the top - the site is absolutely massive). Jesus-is-lord on the other hand.. well, you know what I think of that place (even though, same as with Stephanos, it was very helpful for me as a young christian - I just see it as quite legalistic now - in the proper sense of the word).

EDIT: I agree with Josh to some extent. But we must not only turn from unbelief, but from self righteousness and anything else we trust in. When anyone comes to Christ, they will come with a heavy burden of sin. They cannot but do anything else.

[Josh]

I agree that repentance includes turning from whatever it is you're trusting in besides Christ, it does not however require a hatred for sin. The Bible doesn't say anywhere that we must hate, or even dislike our sin. It says we must see ourselves as sinners, lost and on our way to Hell, accept Chtist as the only way to Heaven, and put our trust in Him. Some people will hate sin before salvation, all who are saved will be given this hatred by the Holy Spirit I believe, buts it's not a requirement to get saved.

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Josh

I agree that repentance includes turning from whatever it is you're trusting in besides Christ, it does not however require a hatred for sin. The Bible doesn't say anywhere that we must hate, or even dislike our sin. It says we must see ourselves as sinners, lost and on our way to Hell, accept Chtist as the only way to Heaven, and put our trust in Him. Some people will hate sin before salvation, all who are saved will be given this hatred by the Holy Spirit I believe, buts it's not a requirement to get saved.

Hating sin is something that is likely to happen when one is saved. It's not a requirment of salvation by any means. Also, those that hate sin before salvation likely hate the consequences of sin, not the sin itself. But when one is born again, we hate sin because we LOVE JESUS! A born again Christian will realize that Christ Jesus CHOSE to shed His blood for our sins, and the thought of our righteous God nailed to a cross can be so difficult to think about at times, that the natural response seems to be to hate the sin that warranted such a soul saving sacrifice.

Back to chick tracts. In "This Was Your Life" it has the man being told after asking what he must do to be saved: "REPENT! - Surrender your life to Christ, ..." and then he prays "Lord, I know I'm a sinner - I repent of my sins and I acknowledge Jesus Christ as my Lord and personal savior!" Then in "A Love Story" it says "Who wants you to tell Him how very sorry you are for your sins... And that you'll turn away from them?" I want to make it clear that I'm not against repentance (to turn, change ones mind). I'm also not against striving to live a life meet for repentance as Paul preached:

Acts 26:20 (KJV) But shewed first unto them of Damascus, and at Jerusalem, and throughout all the coasts of Judaea, and then to the Gentiles, that they should repent and turn to God, and do works meet for repentance.

What I'm against is adding anything to God's SIMPLE plan for salvation. We must make it ever so clear that BELIEF in the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, God's only begotten Son, is the only thing that will save. When a sinner believes on the Lord Jesus Christ THEN we instruct them on how to live a life well pleasing to God.

So anywho, I think I'll keep using chick tracts, since they aren't blatant LS. Also it is encouraging to know that brother Luke was lead to the Lord with them. I just want the brethren to be on guard against the little leaven (love you George!) that has crept into Churches lately, and in their delivery of the gospel.

Much Love in Christ Jesus,
Stephen

Originally Posted by Josh

The point isn't that his tracts say "male Him the Lord of your life", the point is that his tracts say you must "repent of your sins". Repent means "to turn", or "to turn from". Do don't need to turn form your sins in order to be saved, nor can you. You only must turn from your sin of unbelief.

Excuse me, brethren: could we maybe have a reality check? If you're looking for deep spiritual doctrine in a salvation tract, you're looking in the wrong place. That's not what they're written for, and, anyway, an unbeliever doesn't understand spiritual things. Tracts are written (if they're any good) to be easily understood by pagans. The difference between "sin" and "sins" is lost on a pagan, if he's just coming under conviction for the first time.

The girl who led me to Christ witnessed to me for two years, and sometimes gave me tracts; specifically, she used Campus Crusade's "Four Spiritual Laws." That is not a very good tract. But the Lord used her to "win" me. At the time of my conversion, I had no idea what a "sin nature" was; I just knew that I was a sinner, because I knew myself!

I'm not saying that tracts should be written carelessly, or contain unsound doctrine; if a tract preaches the "prosperity gospel," for example, it's not of God. But that's not the kind of thing we're talking about.

Criticizing a ministry as fruitful as Chick's, because of a word or a phrase, is a classic example of gnat-straining and camel-gobbling.

Lol I got Jesus-is-savior.com mixed up with Jesus-is-lord.com. I do sometimes read from Jesus-is-savior.com, I just happen to believe in this case that he's wrong to say a tract is promoting Lordship salvation just because the word "repent" appears in it.

[atlas]

VR,

Excuse me, brethren: could we maybe have a reality check? If you're looking for deep spiritual doctrine in a salvation tract, you're looking in the wrong place. That's not what they're written for, and, anyway, an unbeliever doesn't understand spiritual things. Tracts are written (if they're any good) to be easily understood by pagans. The difference between "sin" and "sins" is lost on a pagan, if he's just coming under conviction for the first time.

AMEN!!!!!!!!



Atlas

Originally Posted by Josh

The point isn't that his tracts say "male Him the Lord of your life", the point is that his tracts say you must "repent of your sins". Repent means "to turn", or "to turn from". Do don't need to turn form your sins in order to be saved, nor can you. You only must turn from your sin of unbelief.

When you try to divorce repentance from sin you are rejecting scripture. The problem with the Church of Christ is they reverse the God given order of repentance and faith and make salvation a process. They teach:

1. Believe
2. Repent
3. Confess
4. Be baptized
In other words just believe and then start working your way to heaven.

Baptists have always taught that repentance comes before faith. Repentance will bring about a change of heart and attitude toward their sin. They will see themselves guilty before God and in need of salvation. There will be a desire to forsake the sin and turn to God.

Romans 10:10 clearly states that "For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation."

Walking down to an altar and praying a prayer after someone will not hack it. I had a head belief for several years but was nothing but a self righteous and lost church member.

[Luke]

Did you sign up just to say that?

Baptists have always taught that repentance comes before faith. Repentance will bring about a change of heart and attitude toward their sin. They will see themselves guilty before God and in need of salvation. There will be a desire to forsake the sin and turn to God.

Walking down an aisle and praying a prayer will not hack it

How does praying a prayer constitute head belief? And noone even said anything about the aisle or altar in this thread... And what is belief but a function of the mind.

Salvation is a single action. It is turning to God. turning from sin and turning to God are two seperate actions.

Sorry, you sound like another Paul Washer proselyte, bent on your "war on the sinner's prayer".

Now you are still self righteous. Instead of just asking Christ for salvation, you have now done something! You have repented of your sins. good for you.

[tonybones2112]

Originally Posted by stephanos

This is a great article about some tracts that bear false teachings. I think it's a rude awakening that we Christians need to make sure we share a pure gospel.

http://jesus-is-savior.com/False%20D...bad_tracts.htm

Peace and Love,
Stephen

Stephen, I don't have a cat in this fight, and I've read the whole thread, and my only comments is we need to first read anything we give out because as giving them out free, we at the same time are signing our names to the material and giving it our personal stamp of approval as being Scriptural. I use Chick and Fellowship Tract League almost exclusively except for KJV related material of a specialized nature(such as the EYE OPENER). Chick does not write a tract for Grace Believers, and then another version for Baptists and another version for Lutherans, he writes one tract for everybody to give out. Same with Fellowship. My suggestion is simple military discipline: We check our ammo before we give it out. If we feel it's not Scriptural, there's is plenty that is. We must remember that tracts are written by men, the Scripture written by God, and God's words alone will lead men to Christ. I've found few tracts besides Chick and FTL that present the crucifixion of Christ more openly and graphically. Let's all pray our discernment be edified and able to spot error when it shows up.

Much fruit to you all

Grace and peace

Tony

Originally Posted by Luke

Did you sign up just to say that?

How does praying a prayer constitute head belief? And noone even said anything about the aisle or altar in this thread... And what is belief but a function of the mind.

Salvation is a single action. It is turning to God. turning from sin and turning to God are two seperate actions.
God grants the Gentiles "repentance unto life. - Acts 11:18

Sorry, you sound like another Paul Washer proselyte, bent on your "war on the sinner's prayer".

Now you are still self righteous. Instead of just asking Christ for salvation, you have now done something! You have repented of your sins. good for you.

I work with a man who says he is a Christian because he believes in Jesus. He gets drunk every weekend and a couple of weeks ago he was kicked out of a bar because he stripped down naked while drunk. I told him just because he says he is a Christian doesn't make him one. He simply comes back and says that he believes in Jesus and doesn't have to go to church to be saved. In short he has deceived himself into believing that he is ready to meet God.

What did the apostle Paul say to the Corinthians?

2Co 12:21 And lest, when I come again, my God will humble me among you, and that I shall bewail many which have sinned already, and have not repented of the uncleanness and fornication and lasciviousness which they have committed.

A few verses down he says the following to those same Corinthians.

2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

Preachers like Steve Anderson make men like the friend I work with a twofold child of hell by soothing their conscience and making them believe all is right with their soul by merely being religious.

Jesus said "repent ye, and believe the gospel." Repentance is also part of the Great Commission.

Luk 24:47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

If you do not preach repentance you are not fulfilling the commission given by the Lord himself.

Once again it is with the heart that men believe unto righteousness. Any faith that doesn't change a man's heart (his inner most being) is not saving faith.