[Diligent]

Just a point for clarification:

This forum isn't really a SwordSearcher forum. I do link to the SwordSearcher web site because it is likely to be useful to a lot of people who would be interested in this forum, and it also pays the bills. I don't want someone to get the idea that they have to support SwordSearcher in order to use/support this forum.

SwordSearcher also has a pretty wide range of users -- I expect only a small subset of those users would feel "at home" in this forum. SwordSearcher actually has its own forum which is tame and quiet compared to this one. (And I like it that way.)

That being said, I certain do appreciate the folks who talk about SwordSearcher and support it.

[Brother Tim]

and anyone who has not tried SwordSearcher has missed the best Bible study tool available today for a faithful, serious Bible student.

[this is the testimony of a regular user of the software and not that of a paid actor ]

[Amanda S.]

4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.

I guess verse 4 is where the idea comes from that since Jesus is the chief Shepherd, the Pastor must be the plain ole shepherd. But I do not see scripture ever referring to a pastor as a shepherd. That's a stretch in my understanding. I agree though, the Bible is clear...feed the flock.

No study whatsoever here, but I was reminded of a verse I read earlier today...

1Sa 17:20 And David rose up early in the morning, and left the sheep with a keeper, and took, and went, as Jesse had commanded him; and he came to the trench, as the host was going forth to the fight, and shouted for the battle.

Probably nothing to at all with the discussion but David was the shepherd yet gave the care of his sheep over to another...a keeper.

[Amanda S.]

Another thought for those of us who believe in a "universal Church"...I do think that a Pastor is the shepherd over his local church assembly while Christ is the Chief Shepherd over all believers.

Acts 20:28-29 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.


Ultimately Christ is the shepherd, but as David did with his flock, the Lord has entrusted His flock that have put themselves into a local church under the pastor's spiritual guidance and care.

[greenbear]

Where do you get the practice of one "pastor" above "deacons" ruling over the church? What is a pastor's role? Where is a pastor described as a "shepherd" over the church in the dispensation of grace?

[Amanda S.]

greenbear,

Are you asking because you don't know or are you trying to make a point later? If so, I know the answer...I think you know the answer, so feel free to make your point

[greenbear]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

greenbear,

Are you asking because you don't know or are you trying to make a point later? If so, I know the answer...I think you know the answer, so feel free to make your point

Please read these threads. I am in full agreement with what brother George has written, and of course what I wrote in my posts.

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1460

http://av1611.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1447&page=2

George wrote another post about jack-booted thugs that usurp Christ's and the Holy Spirit's place in the lives of believers but I can't find it now. It was a great post. It may be on a deleted thread.

[Amanda S.]

I read the first thread and at first glance it seemed right in line with what I believe. But a couple of statements in the notes on the Church sounded unfamiliar to me so I will give them more thought and let you know if I disagreed with anything

Great post George!

[Forrest]

Originally Posted by Amanda S.

...I do think that a Pastor is the shepherd over his local church assembly while Christ is the Chief Shepherd over all believers.

Acts 20:28-29 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.


Ultimately Christ is the shepherd, but as David did with his flock, the Lord has entrusted His flock that have put themselves into a local church under the pastor's spiritual guidance and care.

Sister Amanda, I know you agree. We should use the "words" that are given to us in the the inspired, infallible, preserved, Holy written word of God. The pastor is not identified or called a "shepherd," but he is called an "overseer" by scripture.

[Amanda S.]

Greetings Bro. Forrest,

Sister Amanda, I know you agree. We should use the "words" that are given to us in the the inspired, infallible, preserved, Holy written word of God. The pastor is not identified or called a "shepherd," but he is called an "overseer" by scripture.

I will agree that we should use Biblical terms. We don't always because we are products of our society and we tend to pick up the lingo of the day. I heard a preacher once preach a sermon on this very subject. For instance you called God's Word inspired. Technically it is not inspired, but is given by inspiration. The word rapture does not appear in the Bible yet everyone know exactly what we are referring to. And there are others.

Having said that however, you said a pastor is called an overseer.

I Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
2 Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;
3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.
4 And when the chief Shepherd shall appear, ye shall receive a crown of glory that fadeth not away.


It's still not a stretch to call a pastor a shepherd.