Originally Posted by Beth

The way my Pastor explains it is: you would encourage your wife to participate in Church counseling and if after the counsel she still will not repent or if she refuses counsel altogether, then the Church is to treat her as a Pagan and then it would apply as it would when an unbelieving spouse leaves, let her leave. You are not bound.

It really doesn't matter what your preacher teaches. What really matters is "What does God's Word say!".

As to Ruckman... I am TOTALLY 110% KJV all the way and I appreciate his stand on that. BUT I would rather not have someone like him on our side. He is very offensive and the Bible tells us in II Timothy 2:24
"And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient,". From the very first time I saw Ruckman on a video I was just turned off by him. Something just told me that he may not be all he was professing to be. Then later by chance I heard about his multiple marriages. Then it made sense to me why someone that I know who is really a good Christian, thinks marriage, divorce and remarriage is ok. He is a HUGE Ruckman fan. He says that the Bible just means that we are to only be married to one woman at a time when it says "the husband of one wife".

So you see, Ruckman has justified the sin in his own life by preaching that it is ok and that he was the wounded one, the offended one in his past marriages. And in doing this he has made it OK for thousands of his followers. Which is a great example of why we should be followers of Jesus Christ and not man. I do not advocate divorce but I could NEVER stay married to a man like Ruckman He is insulting and abrasive. I am so thankful for the man God gave me. And I am thankful for His Word, that it will stand FOREVER and that He is the Defender and Keeper of it!

Originally Posted by kstsells

It really doesn't matter what your preacher teaches. What really matters is "What does God's Word say!".

Did you not see that I quoted the scripture my Pastor used to back up that statement?

Matthew 18:15-17 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

and then since we are to treat them as an unbeliever, this verse comes into play.

1 Corinthians 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

When a dispute arises between two believers, Church discipline must be put into practice. Why would this be different for two believers that are married?

My Pastor didn't just make this statement off the cuff. He preached a series on this topic. Many Churches don't even talk about the subject, they just don't know what to do about divorce, so they just say it's a sin. At times it seems to be the only unforgivable sin.

If anyone would like to listen to the series go to

http://www.spokanebaptist.com/audio.html
in sermons by topic, go to divorce and re-marriage.

btw, I'm not defending Ruckman here. I have no idea about the details of his divorce or divorces?? I was simply attempting to address the question made re: what do you do when a believing spouse departs.

[chette777]

may I suggest that you all read Grace by Lewis Sperry Shafer and if you like also his book True Evangelism, and his article the pure Gospel. if everyone could understand in this dispensation it is Belief, Faith, alone on JESUS CHRIST.

The last post I read onthe guy sharing beleive on God. that is not the Gospel of Grace, the Gospel of God or the Gospel of Jesus Christ. any other gospel preached or added too will put one in a place of receiving a curse. Anathema Paul called it in Galatians

[chette777]

Hey Guys,

I see you'al using alot of scripture that is kingdom age doctrine and trying to force it into the church age. Matthew 18 is a kingdom Doctrine. If you use it today you will find it will produce the wrong fruit. GRACE is the KEY. Please if I can encourage you all to just buy a copy. Hey I will email you a zip copy of Grace By Lewis Sperry Chafer. You read through a few times so youcan grasp it. then try applying to your life and ministries. it has revolutionized mine and has provoked Satan and his emmesaries to attack us as wel. but the furit is to the GLory of Jesus Christ

Matthew 18:15-20 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Sounds like Matthew 18 contains CHURCH doctrine.

[pbiwolski]

Matthew 18, and the book of Matthew for that matter, is absolutely loaded with "kingdom doctrine." But Jerry's right, it contains instructions to a local church.
Matt. 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

Do you think verse 20 applies only to the kingdom, or today?

Originally Posted by jerry

Sounds like Matthew 18 contains CHURCH doctrine.

That's what I thought also. Matthew 18 is used in the guidance of Church discipline. along with other scripture of that same topic.

1Cr 7:27 Art thou bound unto a wife? seek not to be loosed. Art thou loosed from a wife? seek not a wife.

1Cr 7:28 BUT AND IF THOU MARRY,THOU HAST NOT SINNED; and if a virgin marry, she hath not sinned. Nevertheless such shall have trouble in the flesh: but I spare you.

If you are divorced ( "loosed") as a result of the spouse (wife or husband) leaving you, and the leaving party has no intentions on returning, then if you re-marry, according to these verses, you have NOT sinned. Moreover, 1Cr 7:10 ¶ And unto the married I command, [yet] not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from [her] husband - the WIFE is not to depart from the HUSBAND

That verse fits in with the overall context - and the overall context teaches that the only way a Christian is free in a divorce is when the non-Christian leaves the marriage.

1 Corinthians 7:12-15 But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

There is a big difference between what it says above and what some others are teaching (that a Christian is not bound by ANY divorce).