[peopleoftheway]

GRAVEN IMAGES

EXODUS 20:4-5
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth.
Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; "

I felt moved to look at this topic from browsing the net and looking at certain "Christian" websites and the like and seeing portrayals of the LORD Jesus Christ (or what some man had imagined him to look like) I feel moved to post when I seen pictures of MY LORD looking effeminate, portrayed with dreadlocks, portrayed as a bodybuilder with steroid like muscles, portrayed in last supper alongside gansta rappers etc, the list goes on and on but you get the picture.
When God said those Words ""Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image" I believe that these "kind" of images were included in that statement. If you were to walk into a roman catholics house you would find crosses, pictures of mary, pictures of the pope and worst of all those "effeminate" pictures Of Christ and they all are wrong!
The "Portrayals" are from what someone has "imagined" Jesus had looked like, so in reality the image they are worshipping looks nothing like Christ then it is not Christ they are worshipping! (even if it were right to worship an Image)

GOD Says we CORRUPT Ourselves with images (Too Much television is corruption In my opinion, and that's what TV is, moving images)
Deuteronomy 4:16
Lest ye corrupt yourselves, and make you a graven image, the similitude of any figure, the likeness of male or female,

GOD Says He HATES images
Deuteronomy 16:22
Neither shalt thou set thee up any image; WHICH THE LORD THY GOD HATETH

GOD Says Any man that makes these images is cursed
Deuteronomy 27:15
Cursed be the man that maketh any graven or molten image, an abomination unto the LORD, the work of the hands of the craftsman, and putteth it in a secret place. And all the people shall answer and say, Amen.

GOD Says they are vanity and profitable for nothing
Isaiah 44:9
They that make a graven image are all of them vanity; and their delectable things shall not profit; and they are their own witnesses; they see not, nor know; that they may be ashamed.
Isaiah 44:10 Who hath formed a god, or molten a graven image that is profitable for nothing?

GOD Says That Graven images cannot save
Isaiah 45:20
Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save.
Jeremiah 10:14
Every man is brutish in his knowledge: every founder is confounded by the graven image: for his molten image is falsehood, and there is no breath in them.

GOD Says That images are from "High Places" worshipped to upon High Places
Numbers 33:52
Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:
Leviticus 26:30
And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.
Deuteronomy 12:2
Ye shall utterly destroy all the places, wherein the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree:

We know what the Apostle Paul said in Regards to High Places
Ephesians 6:12
For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
2 Corinthians 10:5
Casting down imaginations, and every high thing that exalteth itself against the knowledge of God, and bringing into captivity every thought to the obedience of Christ;

I believe that any pictures of Christ portrayed in any way should be cast down, when Paul speaks about bringing into captivity "every thought" to the obedience of Christ In regards to images I believe that we should look for Christ in his "Words" and "Teaching" and in our hearts, not through an interpretation of an artist. I do not think ANY image of Christ, on a Cross, carrying a Cross, the last supper, being baptized, or the Risen Saviour is something any serious Christian should have about them, I feel that it is like Catholic mass, it is crucifying Christ over and over.

[George]

Amen! Preach it brother!

We left an Independent Baptist Church in 1975 for putting up a Christmas tree and "decking the halls with balls of Holly" in the sanctuary where we met; where the word of God was preached and taught; and where we fellowshipped and prayed!

Jeremiah 10:2 Thus saith the LORD, Learn not the way of the heathen, and be not dismayed at the signs of heaven; for the heathen are dismayed at them.
3 For the customs of the people are vain: for one cutteth a tree out of the forest, the work of the hands of the workman, with the axe.
4 They deck it with silver and with gold; they fasten it with nails and with hammers, that it move not.
5 They are upright as the palm tree, but speak not: they must needs be borne, because they cannot go. Be not afraid of them; for they cannot do evil, neither also is it in them to do good.

I told the brethren when I left, that what they did in their homes - as individuals (a Christmas tree, a glass of wine, T.V., Entertainment, even "smoking", etc.), I had nothing to say about (and still don't!), but what we did "together" as a church, now that was another matter!

Romans 12:16 Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.

1 Corinthians 1:10 Now I beseech you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment.

Philippians 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind.

Philippians 3:16 Nevertheless, whereto we have already attained, let us walk by the same rule, let us mind the same thing.

Philippians 4:2 I beseech Euodias, and beseech Syntyche, that they be of the same mind in the Lord.

1 Peter 4:1 Forasmuch then as Christ hath suffered for us in the flesh, arm yourselves likewise with the same mind: for he that hath suffered in the flesh hath ceased from sin;

It is interesting to note - that no one ever apologized, but for years after they didn't set up "idols" in the church building. The brethren knew what I believed (my personal "convictions") and they preferred the "things of this world" and "the traditions of men" to myself and my family. SAD!

[peopleoftheway]

You raise a good point there George regarding Christmas, In my family the only Born agains are My Mother, My Niece and Myself, I have said that I don't want to do the idolatrous Christmas theme with tree's and bells and whistles and the like, but my unsaved members of my family would look upon me as some kind of stick in the mud, and in all ignorance say that I should get "into" the spirit of Christmas, but their words condemn them because the spirit they would get into at Christmas is not one I wish to be "familiar" with.
My Niece is only 8 and I really don't know how to approach Christmas , If she were my Daughter I would explain, especially the Satan Claus myth but I guess I just have to be there in "Body" but not in "spirit". I guess you could say that playing along with the Satan Claus idea is idolatry, for it is asking Kids to be good and ask Satan for what they want in amount of worldly goods, when they should be good and pray to the LORD for what they want spiritually. Its the devil influencing children to be seduced by material, worldly possessions. Same thing goes for Halloween, but that's a whole other story!
Now lets get back on Topic lol, GRAVEN IMAGES.

[George]

Aloha brother,

When it comes to family, friends, the brethren and others - we should not seek to "force" our personal convictions on them. It's a delicate "balancing" act that is sometimes very difficult to maintain.

However, in regards to "idols", I am in complete agreement with your former Post, and refuse to have "pictures" of Jesus or other "aids to worship" in my home. I would only add that I think we would be surprised at how many "idols" are out there that we don't even recognize as being "idols".

[Renee]

Amen People of the way,

I believe that any pictures of Christ portrayed in any way should be cast down, when Paul speaks about bringing into captivity "every thought" to the obedience of Christ In regards to images I believe that we should look for Christ in his "Words" and "Teaching" and in our hearts, not through an interpretation of an artist. I do not think ANY image of Christ, on a Cross, carrying a Cross, the last supper, being baptized, or the Risen Saviour is something any serious Christian should have about them, I feel that it is like Catholic mass, it is crucifying Christ over and over.

(By George)
We left an Independent Baptist Church in 1975 for putting up a Christmas tree and "decking the halls with balls of Holly" in the sanctuary where we met; where the word of God was preached and taught; and where we fellowshipped and prayed!

Coming from a Catholic background, and very devout as a youth, when I walked into that building, I think it (if it be possible) that it grieved my spirit more than it did George. I had left my idols behind and here it was stareing me in my face again. How shallow was their belief in God's word!

We have visited that Church since (for their 40th anniversery) and the ashes are very cold.

I praise the Lord for the brethren we have met her who love God and honor His word, and have charity one for another.

Saved by God's precious blood,
Renee

[peopleoftheway]

I wholeheartedly agree, and the LORD has shown me exactly what you mean earlier today! This post was inspired by a recent comment from your dear Wife.

[peopleoftheway]

Originally Posted by Renee

Coming from a Catholic background, and very devout as a youth, when I walked into that building, I think it (if it be possible) that it grieved my spirit more than it did George. I had left my idols behind and here it was stareing me in my face again. How shallow was their belief in God's word!

Praise the LORD Sister,
look where you where , look where you are now, our God is a Wonderful God!, an Almighty God! and a Forgiving God!
Being grieved is a great testimony to how right with the LORD you are now

[stephanos]

Yeah this is an issue that I've battled with myself. My family that professes to be Christian thought I was a fanatic because I refused to have anything to do with Easter (how can they not see an idol when they look at a chocolate bunny? Satan has managed to get idols and food offered to idols into one package!). Now that halloween is upon us, I said the other day (after hearing the quote somewhere else) that for a Christian to celebrate halloween would be like a jew celebrating Hitler's birthday. Of course I am still the fanatic. At least during halloween people come to my door for tracts, instead of me getting them to them. Hehe. I'm stocking up on tracts early this year, mostly for children of course. This is such a great opportunity to witness to people. I also would like to witness to Christians about halloween, but I don't have a clue how to do it. I guess I just have to accept that some will listen while others will put their heads in the sand and pull the fanatic card on me.

Back to idols. They're everywhere. The enemy has just had to get more deceptive than before in getting us to worship them. Hellivision imho is the great church of satan, and is full of idols. I could name others, but I'm sure I would offend some.

1 John 5:21 "Little children, keep yourselves from idols. Amen."

a fanatic for Jesus,
Stephen

[stephanos]

Originally Posted by Renee

Amen People of the way,

Coming from a Catholic background, and very devout as a youth, when I walked into that building, I think it (if it be possible) that it grieved my spirit more than it did George. I had left my idols behind and here it was stareing me in my face again. How shallow was their belief in God's word!

We have visited that Church since (for their 40th anniversery) and the ashes are very cold.

I praise the Lord for the brethren we have met her who love God and honor His word, and have charity one for another.

Saved by God's precious blood,
Renee

When I was younger I watched my aunt become a benedictine nun. I was VERY young in the faith then, and under the ecumenical influence of my grandfather. But even then I felt grieved in that place. Sure it was peaceful out in the middle of nowhere, and I can see why my aunt was attracted to that religion (seducing spirits are everywhere...) but to this very day I cannot even step foot in a catholic gathering place (I dare not call it a church). I just can't. This may sound crazy, but when I was younger, my father went back to South Africa (he was born in Durban South Africa). When he came home from his two week trip, he brought home an african fertility god statue for me (I don't know why. It really offended me). I knew there would be trouble. I could just feel it. The thing was totally offensive to me, but I didn't dare insult my father on the day he got home. So I figured I'd keep it in my room for one night and then ditch it the next day. That night I awoke to something holding me down by the neck and unable to scream. I could sense something mocking me, and almost thought I could hear it laughing at me. I prayed "Father, in the name of Jesus Christ rebuke this spirit!" and it instantly went away (I smashed the thing with a rock hammer just afterwards). Now, whenever I see idols I can just feel the spirit within them. I know it sounds kookoo for cocao puffs, but I'm not kidding. I can sense when something is in one or not. This is why I refuse to go anywhere near a Catholic gathering place. I get that feeling around them. I know that I am safe because I am a child of God, but I know that they also will try to harass us at any chance they get (for some reason I think only certain devils dare an outright attack on a Christian).

I don't know if any of you will recieve what I've just said. My parents make fun of me because I told them what happened. I know what happened. It was very real. So yeah, idols are dangerous. The spirit behind them is very much so active. But we Christians are not ignorant of these things. Let us rest assured that our God will smash them one day. And if you, like I did, find yourself face to face with one of these things, KNOW that God will come to your aid in the name of JESUS!

a fool for Jesus,
Stephen

[Renee]

Hi Staph,

Back to idols. They're everywhere.

You can say that again, all you have to do is look at some of theses posts!!!

Aloha Renee